Episode 6 Transcript - In My Head: The Mental Load of Motherhood

Episode 6 - Mental Load

Rachel (2): [00:00:00] The content of this podcast, Generation Mom, is for entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and their guests are their own and do not constitute professional advice. While we strive to provide accurate and up to date information, this podcast is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional, medical, financial, legal, or other advice.

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I remember being a kid in this very kitchen and it was one night after dinner. And I think you were frustrated with our lack of helping you. And. I think I said to you you didn't ask and you said, I shouldn't have to ask and I didn't get it then, but I think as a mother [00:01:00] now, I, and as a wife, like I get it because we all live in this house and we all have eyes.

Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Generation Mom. I'm Rachel, the elder millennial who tries to stay grounded in all of the chaos of modern parenthood. I'm Pam, the Bloomer Mom, to my two co hosts and Nana to their kids. I've spent And I'm here to share my generational wisdom with a touch of tough love. And I'm Laurel, your Gen X voice of reason, stuck in the middle, ready to weigh in with unsugarcoated advice.

Join us as we tackle life's big questions across three generations, sharing laughs and insights along the way. This is Generation Mom. 

Hello again, and welcome back to Generation Mom,

we're back today to talk about the invisible load of motherhood or the mental load of motherhood. You may have heard [00:02:00] both terms to give a little bit of background.

Concept of the mental load of motherhood refers to the invisible cognitive work that's involved in managing a household and family. It's often disproportionately , Born by mothers. This mental load encompasses planning, organizing, and keeping track of various tasks and responsibilities, including those related to child care, household management, and family logistics.

The invisible load is a term that refers to the everyday tasks that people do, but that aren't always recognized as work, like laundry, grocery shopping, scheduling, appointments. But then the mental load is all of that cognitive and emotional work that people do to manage their homes and families, like planning meals.

Scheduling, keeping track of household [00:03:00] supplies, keeping track of doctor's appointments and kids growing out of their clothes and all of the little. Things that no one sees that just live rent free in our brains. So I'm going to give a little brief history according to chat GPT about how the mental load has evolved.

 In the pre industrial era, both men and women were involved in the various tasks necessary for family survival. Women often took on a significant role in managing household tasks and child care, but this work was more visibly shared with the community. So this is where you get the saying it takes a village used to have actual villages of people Once the Industrial Revolution rolled around men were increasingly working outside of the home and Women were expected again to manage the home and children [00:04:00] So this is where the division of labor starts to intensify the mental load on women as their responsibilities expanded to include managing both paid and unpaid work.

In the early 20th century, you have this concept of the perfect housewife emerging idealizing women who could manage a household efficiently and with grace. The mental load continued to be a largely unacknowledged burden for women, even as societal expectations evolved. You also have post world war two people are living in suburbs and neighborhoods, and they're not as connected as they were, although as we talked about in some previous episodes, you still had the everybody's parenting, everybody's children, so you still had Some support but women are back in this very traditional role.

However, the feminist movements of the sixties and seventies [00:05:00] began to address the unequal distribution of domestic responsibilities. At this time, you also have women entering the workforce in more and more numbers. And so this concept of mental load, it starts gaining some more attention, but it's not widely recognized or named.

And you have women going into the workforce, but there's not really that support system there. So it's still falling pretty much on the shoulders of women. In the early 2010s, the term mental load starts really gaining popularity, particularly through the work of French graphic designer Emma and her comic series highlighting the unseen burdens of motherhood.

If you haven't read this comic it's really interesting. We'll link to it in the show notes.

 Eve Rodsky wrote this book called Fair Play, which then became a documentary. [00:06:00] All about this idea of how can you distribute the mental load, the invisible load, make it visible, and then share that load with your partner in a fair way.

 She opens the book and the documentary talking about how getting a text about blueberries is what sent her over the edge, where she was a high powered attorney and she's on her way home and going to the grocery store, on the way home from a very stressful day.

And she, gets the groceries and then she drops them off and she's taking her son to practice and her husband texts her, you forgot the blueberries. And I guess they, she just flipped out because she's like, why is it on me to remember the blueberries?

Rachel: Talk a little bit about, from your perspective, since the [00:07:00] mental load wasn't really something. Talked about or even probably recognized. What was your experience with it?

Pam: Okay. Let's start with when I was a kid And I grew up in the 50s and 60s And My mother did all of the chores and all of the household chores Tasks and all of that.

And I remember that she never asked my father to do anything because, he was working, which he was a physician and he got up very early in the morning and went on his rounds and then went to his office and then he'd come home about six o'clock for dinner. And he'd be home about 45 minutes.

He'd eat dinner and he'd talk to us a little bit and then he'd go back. to work until about 10 or 11 at night, and I remember that [00:08:00] she never asked him to do anything. In terms of even picking up a dish or anything, the only thing I remember him doing in a domestic manner was he would barbecue, but she would fix all the food and everything and bring it out to him, and then he would just put the steaks or the hamburgers on the grill.

And that was about it until I think I was about 12, 11 or 12, and something happened between them and my mother got fed up. She was tired and she left for a while and left my father with us. And I remember that being just daunting for him. He didn't know what to do and he knew how to make one thing and that was salami and eggs.

And I remember we ate that for two [00:09:00] weeks straight and our laundry didn't get done. And I remember he brought one of his nurses from his office to help him with cooking and doing some of the cleaning. And then he hired a cleaning woman. I remember that. And until she came back and she was gone maybe two weeks or something like that.

And then she was back doing everything that she had done before. I think she just needed a break, but nothing was really said about it. And they weren't, my mother wasn't saying, okay, let's sit down and divide this labor or, anything like that. She still didn't really expect him to do anything.

Although she, she stuck it to him when she left him with everything and no instructions and all of that. When I was growing up, I had that mindset that, men were supposed to sit in the den and watch football and I was supposed to be in the kitchen, cooking and all of that.

 But something happened [00:10:00] where I just felt, and I think other people in my generation, it became something that was talked about that, this isn't really fair because he's working, but so am I'm working too. And I'm not only working, but I have to come home and do a couple loads of laundry and cook dinner and shop and all of this.

And I remember starting to ask your father for help. Which in the beginning he, he was a little bit resistant because, that's not what he was. And, his mother did everything too. But I remember we had a talk about it and I said we can either, have me stay home and be a full time mom.

housekeeper or, you're going to have to help me or we're going to have to get help in the house because I can't do it all. And we didn't at that time have the money for a housekeeper or [00:11:00] anything like that. And so he reluctantly started to help out. And then when you guys came along he was of the mind that he wasn't going to, change diapers and all of that.

He did, he learned very quickly and he would help me like at night with the feedings and things like that, because sometimes you'd get up twice in the night and that would mean I wouldn't really get any sleep if I was up, doing the feedings and everything. That's how that changed.

I think a dialogue started to happen, but it was because there was a movement in that time of, women's rights and feminism and, this kind of thing, and more women going into the workplace in my generation. So you had a two person working home and not one person staying in the house and the other person working.

 And as you get older, I think you start having to share things because, [00:12:00] both of us have certain limitations now at our age. 

Rachel: Laurel, can you talk a little bit just about your experience and maybe how you. manage the mental load in your household?

Laurel: I would say that my husband as far as actual physical work in the house, he does pull his weight. He pretty much has to feed everybody. And that doesn't necessarily make, like when we were kids, Mom made dinner every night, we sat down, we had dinner together, we all had our clean up tasks, and then we went about our evening.

That's not how dinner goes in my house, kids are pickier these days than they used to be, and I know this is true for you too, but, whereas mom put dinner on the table and we ate what was there, We make six different dinners in our house every night.

And, I've hit the point where I cannot deal with it. I cannot deal with it.

 He deals with it. And then he, first of all, he's worked from home, the majority of our marriage. So [00:13:00] it's not like he's. He's been out of the house for most of the time, so he is around. Typically he handles things like the dishes, I do the laundry, he handles the cat boxes he does the trash so the traditional sort of man jobs, i, when I'm home, when I'm around, I try to do things like the dishes I had a s All caught up in dishes recently.

And then, when I left this morning to come here, there was a sink full of dishes and I was coming here, so I didn't get to it. My guess is he's home today, so by the time I get home, he'll probably have those running. So you know, it's whoever is in the kitchen and has the time, does that.

I do all the laundry. And I take care, although not very well, of all the other household sort of items as well. He's, oblivious in some aspects where if there's a mess on the floor, he just steps over it or, he doesn't, get the initiative to tackle it or whatever.

And, so I round everybody up every night or on the weekends, we spend a [00:14:00] couple hours every day cleaning taking care of things that need to be taken care of. He was really involved parenting our first son. Which was awesome, and I think also contributes to why they have such a good bond.

Like I've said in the past, when my second son came around, he was out of the house, very busy, and, just in general, as my older son's needs were front and center, he's it's taken more attention there. He has a good relationship with my younger son, but I certainly didn't have the kind of help, that I had that as I did with the older one.

But yeah, he'd change diapers, he'd get them up in the morning, he'd go get them at night, and, especially my older one, he'd go get him while, or he'd make the bottle while I went and got him, some, combination, so we were tag teaming. So he's been good about that.

 As they've gotten older, this is something I've been, you've heard a lot about recently. I'm to the point where my life's gotten very scheduled. I'm involved in a [00:15:00] lot of organizations. The kids, especially my younger one, have gotten very involved in afterschool activities. They go to two different schools and one of them's across the city, suddenly, I'm running around, my, my mornings are, early afternoons are very calm and quiet and then the minute the kids get home, I'm running around in a car until nine o'clock, and that's all on me he last week, I had to have him go pick up one son because I had to go be at a meeting at the school for the other son, That's something I'll be like, I need you to do this, and he might grumble about it, but he'll do it.

Laurel: And I've just had to really say a lot lately, I cannot be in two or three places at once. I, when my sons got upset because I didn't go to a meeting at his school, but I had this other meeting I had to be at and I had to say, look, I've been to that meeting at your school for four years.

I know pretty much the information they're going to give. I'm going to go to the next meeting that I need to be at, but I can't be in two places at once. There's just one of me, and so that's what, that's the division that [00:16:00] happens. I also manage all the money. So I've got 16 different spreadsheets for all that, and I, Have alarms to know when it's time to pay for things.

That's all on me. Whereas like growing up, I think that was something that my father really handled. I've learned that, I think I've always known this about myself, I have an extent of ADHD.

And my husband's very computer oriented. He wants everything, in the Google calendar, in, I don't know, in clouds and stuff. And those things don't exist to me. I'm very out of sight, out of mind. So I've got a calendar. We realized when my kids were little that our front door is magnetic. So I've got a calendar on the front door that I fill out and I sit with every day and I keep track of everything.

And it amazes me cause it's right there on the front door. So I can't miss it. I know where it is. I will always see it. And he. Seems to not notice that it's there. He has no idea what's going on. He doesn't think to go look at it if he is wondering what's going on or what's [00:17:00] coming up. So I still have to carry it in my head, but it's really gotten to that point where I need it all written down.

Where I can see it or I can't keep track of it all.

Pam (2): I'm listening to you, talk about, You're in six different places at one time. And that was very true in my life because you both went to private schools and you for a while went to two different private schools. I had two carpools to contend with and it was pretty daunting.

Being on the expressway every day, taking you guys back and forth. To school and then keeping up with all of the activities, like you I would have sometimes two calendars, one that would have my things on it because I was president of an organization and I had, other things that I was involved in organizations and things that I was involved in where I had meetings

 And I was a scout leader. I don't know, I'm sitting here thinking, how the hell did I do all that? 

[00:18:00] Carpool is another schedule to handle. 

Laurel: Oh, I know. 

Pam (2): And it's really, I'm thinking about when I was carpooling you guys and we had these other kids too.

And, one of the mothers just, Got really mad at me one day cause we got caught in Atlanta traffic and the kid missed his golf lesson, so not only did I have the pressure of getting you guys to where you had to go, you, then you have the pressure of somebody else's kid and that's another added mental burden.

And I remember one year, one of the girls in my carpool had like an internship or something she was doing and you were dropping her off at the internship on the way home from school. I was dropping one off at an internship, one off at ballet. And then taking the other ones home and I, it was terrible because they all had to be somewhere after school at a certain time.

And it got to be too much. We finally said, look, on the days where your kids have to go to ballet [00:19:00] or golf or whatever your kid is taking, it's your responsibility to go get them because we all were tired of being yelled at by the other mothers. You didn't get my kid to ballet on time. And you, I, it's not, it was not on purpose.

I wasn't sitting and drinking coffee, I'm fighting the traffic at that hour, which is terrible. So yeah, I feel you. 

Laurel: See what you have to look forward to. 

Rachel: It's already starting a little bit. I have a very probably naive goal of only having them do one activity per semester. Although I've already broken that. My daughter is doing dance and yoga, but they're both at her school. So it's actually nice on those days. Like this afternoon, she has yoga. So I pick her up a little bit later, but I have to go pick up my son from daycare first. And it's very close to when I need to be picking her up from yoga.

So I've got to go get him early and then go over there and get her. [00:20:00] I would say we also tag team the household responsibilities and duties. My husband has also taken over some of the traditionally male chores only cause I don't like doing them, like taking out the trash, which includes right now, emptying the diaper pills, which is disgusting and I really appreciate it, but he does it. When we had a cat, he was responsible for the litter box. I am thankful for that. We kind of tag team on the we tag team on the dishes, but I work from home.

So I see it all day. And so then I feel like I have this added pressure of, I need to get work done, but I see that there's a sink full of dishes and I know where we've gone through all of our towels and let me just throw a load in real quick. And so I feel like I [00:21:00] end up doing a lot of that stuff only because I'm sitting there and looking at it all day.

And I'm definitely the keeper of the knowledge. I've known my daughter grew out of her pants, so I need to go to target and get her the size. And I know what sizes they wear and I know what size sheets go on all the beds. And I know, when they're due for their next doctor's appointment and when the dogs are due for their next vet visit, like I have all of these things in my head all the time.

I know. I somehow know the whole inventory of our kitchen. So I know like we're low on bread and we're low on chicken nuggets. We need to get this. And I don't think that my husband has that same level of knowledge living in his head. I had open heart surgery a few years ago and I wrote a document called Rachel's Brain and I dumped it all in there as some of it was like Everyone would need [00:22:00] it when I'm recovering.

And some of it was like, if anything happens to me, if I don't make it through this surgery, he's going to need to know all of this stuff. And I remember I went on a work trip when my daughter was five months old. And I wrote him a whole schedule with instructions and how much formula she drank and how, what to send her to daycare with, and it was comprehensive schedule. And now we're at a point where I can just I can go out of town and he doesn't need the written schedule, but I can't just go out of town. I have to make sure we're stocked up on everything and make sure the kids have what they need for school that week. And I feel like there's still a lot of prep I have to do before I leave town, whereas when my husband goes out of town.

He packs his bag the morning he's leaving and off he goes. Or if we go somewhere as a family. 

Laurel: Yeah, [00:23:00] I was just gonna say. 

Rachel (2): We all go down to Florida a couple times a year, usually. And so I'm packing. My suitcase, both kids suitcases. Managing the animals. Managing the animals, booking them for their hotel stays.

Doggy hotel stays. I yeah, I'm making sure I'm packing up all the food stuff. All the toys. All the toys, yeah. Luckily, as they get older, it's less stuff you need to bring. But for a while it was like, make sure the pack in place in the car and the mattress for the pack in place so they can sleep in it, the baby bath and all this stuff.

And my husband loads the car and brings it all in to the. 

Laurel: Yeah, but mine gets up that morning and you know somewhere around mid morning, and I'm usually aiming to be out of the house by twelve, which rarely happens. But sometime, ten o'clock, he'll go upstairs, grab a bag, throw some things in.

Stuff in it, he does, he and the kids, because my kids are big enough now I make them [00:24:00] help, they load the car and he does, he'll pack a okay, I do have to give him this, he's in charge of my kids medicine and his own medicine because he's got his own medicines too. So he does pack the medicines and he he'll pack a cooler.

So any food that we need to bring with us because it might spoil or because Our kids are weird. Like that goes with us. He handles that. But yeah, he'll pack a bag that day. I'm packing for three days and doing laundry to prepare and cleaning the kitchen. So it's not, we don't have ants when we get home and.

Yeah. All the same stuff. Exactly. 

Pam (2): So this hasn't really changed much.

Rachel (2): I don't think so. But do we think it's a man thing? Are we really built different? Or is it just society? This is how they've been raised. 

Laurel: They've been raised, yeah. 

 And that's changed some over the years, I think traditionally, girls are given dolls and taught to clean the house and, the men are, trained to work. And, this is [00:25:00] something I spoke of before I, this, I try to, I'm trying to get my kids, be involved they handle the recycling, they take the recycling out, they bring the trash cans up now, they Do various stages of the laundry for me.

Laurel: They're not doing it all yet, but like they've, they're learning slowly, they help unload the dishwasher. Like I want them, my older ones start sweeping the kitchen floor. Like I, as they get older and as, and I want some of the load off me too, and their ones make a lot of the mess too, like I'm trying to train them, by giving them these chores and I don't know.

Because we were a two girl household, and I have two boys, but I don't know if families have one of each or multiples of each. If they maybe give girls these chores and boys these chores, and then you just naturally, as you grow up, fall into those roles.

Pam: I think they do. 

Laurel: And then, there's no guarantee my kids are going to be, straight or married at all.

Like they may live on their own their whole lives. You don't know. They've regardless, they've got to be prepared to take care [00:26:00] of themselves. They, I'm not handing them from graduation to a woman and being like, here, take care of him now, like he's got to know what to do and he's got to be able to handle himself and, take care of his house and feed himself and, all of that too.

I don't think it's a girl job to clean and cook because. They need to eat too, 

Pam: but, okay, but, like, when I was growing up, I had two brothers and there was my sister and I. And we were brought up differently. My brothers weren't expected to do much cooking or, Cleaning.

I remember my brothers y you know, they, we'd say, could you help us with the dishes? And they'd have a sword fight in the kitchen or something. . While we did the dishes, there wasn't that same pressure on them. To do things like that. But they did do like yard work and taking out the trash and, stuff like that, that we weren't asked to do.

So I [00:27:00] think there were divisions in labor and in expectations between the girl and the boy.

Rachel (2): With ours, cause we have a boy and a girl, I, we're aware of those things. And it's funny, the two of them were fighting over a toy broom yesterday, like who got to play with the broom. I'm like my daughter can sweep and my son can hold the dustpan.

And so we're trying, I think right now with them, it's just getting them to help at all. And some days they really want to help with everything. And some days my daughter is. too tired to, yeah, my older one's too lazy. She's I said, can you pick up the mess you just made? I'm just too tired to pick it up.

I'm like you should have thought about that before you made them. Yeah, I think we've, I, we've had a lot of talks, my husband and I, about, about this topic and, One of the ways we've tried to get the information out of my brain and somewhere visible is [00:28:00] with a shared calendar like you have, because for, and for a while we were doing a written dry erase calendar, but then 

we got a fancy one. Cause we have a shared Google calendar, which we'll look at, but then we have the one in the kitchen that you could see, but sometimes things would get added to the Google calendar and not make it on. So we got this one called the skylight calendar.

 It's like a monitor basically, or like a little TV you put in your kitchen and then it syncs with your Google calendar and it shows you, you can either look at just the week ahead or you can see the whole month and it'll show you all the appointments and everything you have.

And so that's been really helpful to us because we can sit down once a week and say, okay, what do we have coming up this week? What days do you need me to do drop off? And what days can you do drop off? And I feel like that's helped a lot and it's been a practice to communicate about it and make sure [00:29:00] we're communicating.

And we have our moments where we're like, I thought I told you about that. No, you didn't. I swear. I told him something and he's no, I could say it was on the calendar or he says it to me, it was on the calendar. So that's been a helpful tool to get the. Get the knowledge out and not feel like I'm just the one keeping it all the time.

Rachel (2): I remember being a kid in this very kitchen and it was one night after dinner. And I think you were frustrated with our lack of helping you. And. I think I said to you you didn't ask and you said, I shouldn't have to ask and I didn't get it then, but I think as a mother now, I, and as a wife, like I get it [00:30:00] because we all live in this house and we all have eyes.

And we all contribute to the household that shouldn't fall on one person. And this idea of, Oh, the honey do list, make a list. You have to make me a list. That's an added piece of work that I, you're asking me to think about everything that needs to be done and write it down for you instead of you.

thinking about everything that needs to be done and writing it down or looking around the kitchen and seeing what needs to be added to the grocery list. 

Pam (2): Not only that, but it's, first of all, it doesn't change from day to day. It's the same thing every day. And it's not rocket science. Every day, if you eat a meal, there are going to be dirty dishes that somebody has to do something with and a table that has to be wiped and a sink that has to be cleaned out.

It's the same thing [00:31:00] over and over. And it does get frustrating when you constantly have to. Say, okay, please pick up your dish and put it in the sink. Please put the dish in the dishwasher. Please wipe the counters. It should be, to me, it should be like this machine that just takes over.

Laurel: And I feel like we got there. Like we each kind of had our thing we did every night after dinner to clean up. 

But at my house doesn't happen. I think part of that again, is because we're not all eating at the same time. The kids eat first and then we eat and we eat all different things and, half the time my husband and I are just making ourselves whatever for dinner, and so there's not like that cohesive.

This is dinnertime. This is cleanup time, and it's all much more around the bedtime, routine situation like that takes place. 

Pam (2): Has dinner time just fallen apart in these days? 

Rachel (2): I feel like it has. 

Laurel: Especially now with all the [00:32:00] after school activities, too. That's another thing.

Now my kids aren't even eating together. Because this one has an activity this night. This one eats, and then when this one gets home, he eats, that's just 

Pam (2): That's a shame because, I seem to remember that some of our most pleasant times were when we had dinner and we got to discuss our day and you got to tell us something really good that happened to you that day, and maybe something not so good that happened to you that day, and I think that's important as a family.

I know your kids are little now and they don't sit that long. I don't know. I just, I seem to remember that we always had that closeness at dinner time where we all sat around the table and we tried to keep it as pleasant as possible. as possible. Because when I was growing up, dinner time was not a pleasant time.

It was when we all got, it was the only time my father [00:33:00] was home for a long enough period where he could hear everything bad that we had done that day. So it was that was discussed at the dinner table. And I didn't want it. I didn't want that for myself. Really like those times. And like when you guys come over here for dinner we try to all sit down, not the little ones.

The little ones are running around. Yeah, they're running around. 

Laurel: See, that's the problem. There's only the two adults. It's not like when we're all together and we can all, and this is another one of those expectations I had to throw out. Like I talked about last time, my, between my kids being picky, my one kind of paces while he eats, and as soon as he's done, he's out of there.

My other one likes to eat. He'll sit down and eat, but then he'll also get distracted and go, Play with a toy or something, like that kind of thing. My husband and I both initially, we always planned to eat together. Several times since then, we've said we should start trying to all eat together again.

And it just, it never seems to get off. Either, our dinner's not ready yet. Or, it's getting too late. [00:34:00] Or the kids have now the activity situation. It just, it hasn't worked out that way, and I don't know, like I know plenty of people as they get older and they have kids, especially kids involved in sports and stuff that gets very very schedule heavy and, I don't know how they all manage that.

I have plenty of friends who are. have practices four times a week or, games every week. And, I don't know how they. 

Rachel (2): I always envisioned that we would have meals together and it, I think it's their ages right now and that they. One of my children is very picky eater. And she's eating peanut butter toast for dinner and the other one may or may not eat what we have. And then my husband comes home a little bit later and they're still pretty little.

So I like to have them fed before he gets home or like around the time he's getting home. So I don't really want to make them wait to eat. So I don't know if as they get older we'll end [00:35:00] up, but that's even a thing to manage too. It's okay If my husband's getting home at this time, then do we have time to all eat around the same time, or do I need to be getting them in the bath at this time?

There's a lot of that scheduling and all of that planning that goes into, every little thing. 

Laurel: And even, do you feel like, even the things your husband does handle you still feel like you have to Go and do it? Or, not go and do it, necessarily be in charge of making sure it still gets done.

Huh. My husband handles the kids stuff. He does that, but like the other day I got home from something and realized, it's seven o'clock and they still haven't eaten or he hasn't even started making their dinner. And I'm like, but I can't just. throw it off of myself and just know that I've delegated that task and it's going to be taken.

I still feel like I have to follow up and make sure it still gets done, 

Rachel (2): what I liked about Eve Rodsky's book was she [00:36:00] talks about, I forget how she worded it, but like owning the entire task. So that's not just making the dinner, but it's knowing what time the kids need to eat, planning out, okay, I need to start cooking this time.

And then everything leading up to that, making sure you have the ingredients that you need, making sure that the pots are clean, that you need to use, like all of the stuff leading up to it. And I don't know about you guys, but I'm a huge control freak. And I have a really hard time letting go of the entire task.

And I don't want to be in nag. You also have to let go of how you would do it. And that's the hardest part for me, it's he may get the task done, but he may not do it in the way that I would have wanted it done or gotten it done. But it's done. 

Pam (2): I had to learn that too, because you can tear this whole thing [00:37:00] apart by telling them you want certain things done, and then if they don't do them to your expectation, then you go back and criticize them, or nag at them, or whatever you want to call it.

And, it just ruins it. I've, that's something I had to learn too. I guess I'm a control freak too, but, with Daddy, he'll cook and he'll do the dishes, But I'll walk in the kitchen and it looks like a bomb went off in there. So things aren't put away the counters aren't wiped, whatever, and I have to bite my tongue sometimes and so I go and do it.

You know what he didn't do because I don't want to ruin what he's doing because he's doing something or he'll unload the dishwasher and instead of putting stuff away He'll just leave it on the counter 

Laurel: my kids do that 

Pam (2): and it's like Surely after what 30 some odd years living in this house.

He knows [00:38:00] where this pan goes But no, it never gets in its place. And Does it irritate me? Yes. Do I say anything? No. Because, he, at least he's doing something. He's lifted my load a little bit, and so yeah, I had to learn that. I had to learn not to, not to be too overbearing about, what I was expecting and asking him to do.

Rachel (2): And I don't know if it's an ADHD thing I have or but I'll unload the dishes. And for some reason, I don't know why I really hate our Tupperware cabinet. And cause it's a mess. I need to organize it. Another thing to do, another thing to do. And so I'll just put the Tupperware on top of the counter.

That's above the cabinet. Like I'll deal with this after I unload the whole dishwasher and then I'll forget. And I'll never get to it. So I do that sometimes.

Laurel: [00:39:00] When my temporary drawer got like that and you'd open the door and everything would fall out or, the kids were just piling everything up on the counter that's when I went through and reorganized it all.

 The other really brilliant thing I did There's very few brilliant things, but this was one of them. I got one of those plate Holders from Dollar Tree. So I spent 1. 25 on it And I put it, so I've got my Tupperware on, the bottom shelf of the cabinet and then on the shelf above I stuck the plate holder and I use that to put the lids.

So now I can stack my Tupperware, by size. So it's not all just thrown in there, all crazy. And then the lids are right above. Contained and not falling all over the place. And then, I grab whatever size I want and then I just find the lid that fits, but they're right there, I'm not like going through 600 pieces of Tupperware to find a lid, so it makes it a lot.

That's smart. That's smart. [00:40:00] I'll have to try that.

Laurel: So what's good this week what are you enjoying?

Pam (2): I've saw a Netflix show, like a, what are they called? Like a Netflix limited series. Yeah. Limited series that I really enjoyed. And I actually binge watched it which is probably why I'm so tired.

And it's called a good girl's guide to murder. 

Rachel (2): I watched that one. 

Pam (2): Oh, you have to watch it. I like it. Oh it's so good. And I've heard that the book. is really good too. And that there's also I don't know if it's a sequel or whatever to the book, but there's a, this author has written another book.

And I can't remember what it's called now, but another good girls kind of book. I'm interested in finding it maybe in reading it. Cause I really enjoyed that. I thought that was great. [00:41:00] 

Rachel (2): I have one this week. I've been listening to a podcast called Nice Try and her first season, I think it's Curbed and Vox Media that do the podcast.

And her name, I love her name. It's called Nice Try with Avery Truffleman. The first season was all about failed utopias. So it's about the idea of utopia. And so one of her episodes, the Oneida, they make silverware. Apparently they started out. Basically like a sex cult. Oh my God.

So it's great. Listen to that episode. And then her second season is about like household objects and not how they've failed, how they were reused. Intended to have, certain meaning that maybe they don't. She has one episode about the mattress and she goes into the [00:42:00] history of things.

And it really validated my sleep patterns because she talks about how back before the industrial age, most families were sleeping in one big bed together. And, before there was a lot of electricity and lighting, People would sleep on a more natural cycle. And then they found that the natural sleep cycle was a biphasic cycle.

So you would go to sleep for a few hours and then you would just naturally wake up in the middle of the night. And because you're in this more like communal sleeping space, whoever was up with you, you might like. Have socialized with and talk to and maybe have something to eat or drink and then Go back to sleep a few hours later and sleep through the night And so the three of us are all we will text each other I know if I text somebody at 2 in the morning, I'm gonna get an answer last night I saw you guys texting You did so you were up [00:43:00] to That had to be two o'clock.

So it really validated me that there isn't anything wrong with me. I'm just a biphasic sleeper. But she talks all about the mattress and what makes a good mattress. And so it, it was a delightful series, especially the most recent. season because she talks, her last one is about a typewriter and this typewriter that like old vintage typewriter that she just fell in love with.

And it's just, I love it. It's it's been so much fun to listen to. I hope they do a season three. Oh, that sounds good. Nice try. 

Laurel: We're sticking with the media, I have two kind of relevant things today. The first one is and we've only watched one episode, so I can't vouch for the whole show, but a new show on BritBox recently is called The Change.

And so my husband put it on the other day when we were looking for something not too heavy, we've been watching pretty heavy shows, but, He's been very tired. I've been wearing ragged. So we're looking for not [00:44:00] too serious to watch and he put it on and I'm like, that sounds like it's like a menopausal show.

And he said, I think it is. I'm like, and you want to watch it? And he goes let's see what it's about. I'm like, Okay. All right. So we watched it. And we get to the end of it and we both look at each other and said, Rachel has to watch this. She'll love it. You will have to watch. Both of us, we were like, this is such Rachel show.

It is about that. time of life. The woman's turning 50 or just turned 50. I forget. And it's the same thing you were talking about earlier. She hits her limit. Her husband basically the equivalent of asked her for blueberries and she like packed her bags and walks out her door. And it's I think it's this, we'll see, it's this journey, she's I've had it, I'm out of here.

And, takes off. And he's like baffled as to what, Just happened, like he doesn't get it. So it's very relevant to what we're talking about today and also, a show that we're at least going to continue watching. 

[00:45:00] Okay. So here's the other thing. 

This is a YouTube that randomly got recommended to me and since it was like the one non political related YouTube on my Recommendations I watched it. And this show is called love it or leave it. It's L O V E T Or leave it, and I've never seen it before, but he seems to be like a comedic interviewer, and he's interviewing Wayne Brady and his daughter.

And I'm just going to play this little clip here, because it's relevant it's on Instagram because you're young. Yeah. Are you Gen Z or Gen Alpha? Oh, I'm Gen Z. I'm a Zillennial, so I have DVDs, VHS, I'm born pre iPhone. Okay. So that's our my, that's my very young brother's Gen Alpha, but I'm very proud to be on the older side of Gen Z.

Nice. Yeah. And I'm Gen X. You're Gen X. That must be exciting. It's awesome to be Gen X. Gen X really does feel like America's middle child. Gen X, [00:46:00] like the boomers and the millennials get all the noise, all the attention. We're still cruising towards never having a Gen X president because Barack Obama and Kamala Harris are technically baby boomers.

Trump is a baby boomer. We think we may just skip right to Pete. You're fucked. I know that's true, but I don't know why. You know what? That's why. That's why I don't. Why? Because gen are annoying. Because you did a Gen X thing. You said, why is that? Whatever.

I related to that .

Rachel (2): Thank you for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode. Please review, rate, let us know you're out there. Comment, yes, comment. Share. Share, share with your friends and we'll see you next time 

All right.

I don't know what we're talking about.[00:47:00] 

You just drowned Rachel.