Episode 7 Transcript - Just a Girl: Body Image & Diet Culture
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Pam: I remember, being on my first diet, I probably was eight. When I was at my first diet and I just, today I view that as very unhealthy and I think it's just a natural period that kids go through. And if they're left alone, they'll get through it and do okay.
But if it's shamed and if you're dieted. Then you set up this whole domino effect for the rest of your life. You're going to be dieting for the rest of your life. And so in my family, the motto was, you can never be too thin or too rich. And I think about that today and I think about how, Anorexia has become a very big problem and [00:02:00] obviously you can be too thin.
Rachel: Welcome back to episode seven of Generation Mom. Today we are talking about body image and diet culture. And our perspectives being of different generations. I have the tissues on the table already.
[00:03:00] It's a hard topic for me. I think all of us personally. And then for women in general, I think we're, we have a lot of pressure on us based around how we look and it's changed over the generations, even the expectations of what we should look like. So I wanted to do a quick dive into beauty standards over the generations.
This is from a website called science of people So if we start out when mom was younger, in the fifties, this was still the era of the golden age of Hollywood, the thirties to the fifties.
The ideal woman was described as having curves, an hourglass figure, large breasts, and a slim waist. The, that boyish figure of the 1920s had gone out the window and this hourglass figure was ideal. So the classic example of this is Marilyn Monroe.
She had the ideal body in the fifties. [00:04:00] So then you get into the 60s and there's this trend that comes in from London with the model Twiggy that's more willowy, thin, long, slim legs, and an Almost an adolescent physique. So smaller breasts, just a very like straight look in the sixties. That seems to be the ideal there. In the eighties, you have the rise of the supermodels. So Cindy Crawford being a prime example. And this body type is athletic. It's svelte, but still curvy, tall with toned arms. It's a period of time that brought about an exercise craze. So you have Jane Fonda's workout and
Laurel: rock into the oldies, rock
Rachel: into the oldies.
So you've got, you're encouraging women to be thin, but also to look fit.
So then you get into the nineties and. [00:05:00] I don't know where it all goes wrong, but then you get into heroine chic. So there's this very like starving look of the 90s. It's waifish. It's extremely thin. There's translucent skin. But really women who looked thin, frail and neglected.
So the model Kate Moss was the heroine of that. Heroine chic, she was very pale and thin. And I don't even think Kate Moss today looks like the Kate Moss of the nineties. There was this very impossible ideal and also pretty unhealthy ideal in the nineties. And then the two thousands to today, you have this, they call it the postmodern look.
You have a flat stomach, you're more healthy, skinny But you have large breasts and butt and you have a thigh gap. So it's this very unrealistic expectation of women. Kim Kardashian is set as the standard [00:06:00] where even Kim Kardashian isn't. doesn't really look like that or she has a lot of help to look like that.
So you're expected to be skinny, but not too skinny, but still have large boobs and a big butt, but have a flat stomach. So you see a lot more women having plastic surgery these days. You also have, social media filters giving unrealistic expectations for beauty.
And I think the common thread through all of these eras is women are trying to mold themselves into a body type that maybe they don't have or into an ideal image that not everybody can fit into.
You might be expected to look one way this decade, but then the next decade look a different way.
Rachel: Growing up, what were your experiences with body image? And. expectations around how you were supposed to [00:07:00] look.
Pam: There was always a sense that you're supposed to be thin. There was a lot of push toward, dieting even when I was a kid. Most kids go through that period where they pre adolescent, they gained some weight. They look chubby.
That was bad. I remember, being on my first diet, I probably was eight. When I was at my first diet and I just, today I view that as very unhealthy and I think it's just a natural period that kids go through. And if they're left alone, they'll get through it and do okay.
But if it's shamed and if you're dieted. Then you set up this whole domino effect for the rest of your life. You're going to be dieting for the rest of your life. And so in my family, the motto was, you can never be too thin or too rich. And I think [00:08:00] about that today and I think about how, Anorexia has become a very big problem and obviously you can be too thin.
You can be dangerously thin,
we never had that said to us. It was always, Oh, you're too fat or, and I look at pictures of myself now at that time and I was not fat. But I thought I was because that's what people were telling me. And it got particularly bad, like you said, in the 60s with Twiggy. Because, I don't know who besides Twiggy, could have a body like Twiggy.
Rachel: And Twiggy doesn't even have Twiggy's body anymore either.
Laurel: Age gets us all. Yeah.
Pam: But I think that was very damaging. And damaging psychologically to all of us. Because for my entire life, I've always had the feeling I'm not thin enough. I'm not thin enough. [00:09:00] And so what that did for a while was it created a weight problem that I had most of my life.
And so you build up all these unhealthy issues toward food, so you're binging and purging and, doing all of this starving and eating and it, it becomes a real problem psychologically. Continues, which is too bad because we know the dangers now of diet culture.
And I am now of the belief that dieting doesn't really work. I really think that obesity, is a disease. And I think that it has to be treated in various ways. Yes, with diet and exercise, but also for a lot of people with medication. And the horrible fat shaming that goes [00:10:00] on and continues to go on is really so detrimental to people.
And I remember that I used to put my life on hold, like I'd say I'll buy that dress when I lose 10 more pounds. Or, I'll go to, on that trip, when I get thinner. Or, oh, I'll go skiing, when I can fit into my snowsuit. Which is terrible, because you're putting your life on hold. And I think I had to be almost 40 years old before I really stopped doing that. And, that was around the time that I thought I just have to be happy, with what I am. I'm ready. I'm probably not going to change. I might as well live my life and stop putting everything on hold which I hope people do more today.
Rachel: How did your upbringing and your feelings around weight, how do you feel like that influenced.[00:11:00]
How you taught us about body image or sort of treated body image with your kids or what fears did that bring up for you around raising two girls?
Pam: I think I didn't do a very good job. I think I was very indoctrinated. as a kid, and as a young adult. And I was deathly afraid, that you girls would go through what I went through.
But I didn't handle it the right way. I would do it totally differently today. And I think it was probably worse for Laurel than it was for you.
Laurel: I think it impacted us in different ways.
Pam: Yeah, but I think that I think if I had left you alone I think you would have been fine. But I also put her on a diet very young and that was not [00:12:00] good. And I also I don't want to say I tortured her but I did a lot of talking to her about, the the consequences of being fat and you know, that kind of thing.
And. I really regret that now. I should not have done that. And I wish I had been smarter at the time. But I was going through my own anxiety with weight. So you can be as honest as you want to be. I'm okay. I'm here to own whatever, whatever I did, because I know I did do some bad things and I shouldn't have.
Pam: But I think you agree that I'm much different today than I was then.
Laurel: Oh, on a lot of things, in a lot of ways. Yeah. I remember having really negative, view of myself very young. I had a specific friend who was always picture perfect.
And I always felt just the ugliest, messy sidekick to her. And I remember [00:13:00] being aware of weight at a very young age. And look at pictures of me. I'm talking seven, eight years old, like I looked like a normal kid, I think at that point. And, but even then I remember being very aware that I was the frumpy one.
I was the overweight one. I was the ugly one. And I did. Get put on a series of diets. I went through a very awkward stage around fifth grade. I also had an extreme acne problem. So that didn't help things. But I, pudged up a bit. I had horrible acne. And there was Weight Watchers, there was Jenny Craig, there was just.
diets. Somewhere around 12, 13, I slimmed down. And we were doing that fun exercise class for a while together. And I really enjoyed that. That's like the only exercise I've ever actually enjoyed. And that one summer you got some sort of, [00:14:00] you must've gotten some sort of pass or something, all you want to take pass.
Cause we were literally going five days a week and it was fun. And, no,
Pam: we both got pretty thin that summer.
Laurel: Yeah. I don't know if that's when you were on the Jenny Craig and you really lost a lot, but.
Pam: I was either on Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem.
Laurel: Yeah. And enjoyed it and I don't usually enjoy that kind of thing.
But, it was also fun. It was the two of us. We'd go to lunch after, and, or go shopping. I don't know. It was summer. It was fun. We'd go swimming. And, they'd play oldies. And, we'd have this whole routine and everything.
It was fun. But then I don't know. I remember by freshman year, pudging up again. And somewhere freshman, sophomore year I developed, I remember the negative calorie diet, and it had come to my awareness that celery has negative calories because it's just water and fiber and [00:15:00] you burn more calories eating it than you do, than you consume.
And so I was eating celery sticks, Diet Coke, water. And then, I'd eat a small dinner with you guys. And and I was walking a lot several miles a day in the neighborhood. And Really just trying to get, lose weight.
And up for so long. I lost, I don't know, 10 pounds, maybe. Still didn't get back down to that jazzercise size I was. I never saw that again. And
I, I just, I remember like everything that was wrong with my life and this goes on throughout my life, and, I didn't have friends, or I didn't have a boyfriend, or I didn't, get into something, or, whatever it all was always blamed on, being fat and ugly, and that was just my mantra to myself, and
Pam: You mean you were blaming yourself?
Laurel: Yeah, that was my excuse if I were thin My life would be perfect, like everything about [00:16:00] it. And and looking back and knowing myself now, knowing a lot more than I do now, I'm also extremely socially awkward and, I have a social anxiety disorder and all that.
I, now I can say, Oh, that all played into all that, but I didn't know that at 16, I also had a panic disorder that was undiagnosed at that point, like there was a lot going on with me. But. I, so that was my first sort of anorexia situation, and then I never really ventured into bulimia, although I can't say I've never made myself throw up, but usually it's because I literally just feel so gross and I've eaten way too much and my stomach just really hurts.
It's not a, oh I need to be thin, kind of thing. And then I remember writing in my journal that I would never let myself get to a certain weight and like I had, plans if I ever hit that number on the scale and by senior year, I was over that number. [00:17:00] And I'm still here.
And then freshman year of college, by Thanksgiving, I lost a ton of weight without even knowing it. I had no idea until I came home for Thanksgiving and mom's like, all your clothes are falling off of you. And I was riding my bike everywhere. It was big campus. I was walking everywhere.
Had the dorm cafeteria that was only open. At certain times, so I didn't have unlimited access really to food. Wasn't, shopping or eating around the city a whole lot at that point. And it was completely effortless. It really was. And I didn't I, I didn't try to lose weight.
I didn't even, I wasn't even aware I had. And, mom took me shopping. And I just remember she'd keep bringing in a smaller size and a smaller size. And I kept trying it on and just being like shocked that I was fitting into these sizes that I hadn't seen. Like my whole life. [00:18:00] And I, by the end of college, I was the largest I'd ever been.
And then when I came back here around the time I started teaching around the time I broke up with my boyfriend I was put on a medication and that is really the only time in my life I've had no appetite. And. Just thinking about food would turn my stomach. I would try to eat a sandwich and couldn't get through it.
I just didn't want to eat anything. And I lost a good bit of weight. As a result of that, but ultimately went off the medication because of other side effects I was having that were just too detrimental. But I kept the weight off for several years until I got married. And then within minutes of getting married, I was huge again.
I don't, I don't know. I don't know where, how this weight comes and goes. And then I've, just kept going since then. I haven't been thin since then. And I've had two babies. I haven't been on a scale in years. I have no idea why I weigh right now, but I'm huge and I'm at [00:19:00] this point now where I just can't care anymore.
I, I can't, it's too much effort. It's too much mental energy. It's too much self bashing. It's too much envy, it's just, I can't, and I don't have it anymore. I don't have the willpower. I don't have the energy. I don't have the, what's it going to do? I'm almost 50. I'm married.
I have kids. Like at this point, what does it matter, that's where I'm at, and I just, the sort of consequences, I have very few pictures of myself. With the family, with my kids, any of that I hate the way I look, I hate the way I look in pictures kids will take pictures of me and all I can see is how many chins I have and, how my stomach folds over, or whatever, and, to throw this all out there, but, I had this gorgeous thin sister, It was popular and beautiful and sweet and made friends easily.
And, I just, there was that to it too. [00:20:00] And, I think that, I know now as an adult that she had her own struggles that she's about to tell us about, but, I think a lot of that came from secondhand, what I was going through, she was witnessing what I was going through and what I was being exposed to and, internalizing all of that and trying to avoid it on her own, so that's my story.
Pam: I think that I was very panicked about your health and all of that. And also because I knew that you were unhappy with yourself. And I think that the first time. That this ever came up was when you were really little, you were about six, I think, or seven, and kids teach you on the playground that they told you were fat and you weren't.
And I remember, having a talk with you then about how you're not fat, but you were convinced, but mom, they say I'm fat. I must be [00:21:00] fat. I was trying to help you. I didn't help you, though. I did it the wrong way. And I wish I could go back now and redo it because I think that my own obsession with weight and my own feelings about myself surrounding weight And my body dysmorphia, which I still have I think really negatively impacted you.
And I'm sorry about that. I really am. I feel terrible about that. And, I also grew up in a family where, it was just a crime to be fat. And you were just, taken to task. So I had that, that is as my role model, which was not a good role model. And as years went by and I thought about it, I recognized that was not the right way to go about it.
And as I said before, I really believe it's a disease. And that some of us just [00:22:00] metabolize food differently. And in order to lose weight, and I know this was true for you too.
In order to lose weight, I had to restrict so much that I know I got to a point in my life where I said, this just isn't worth it. This
Laurel: isn't worth it.
Pam: I'm I have very few enjoyments, and this is one of them, I enjoy cooking, I enjoy eating and, and why can't you enjoy that?
Some people can enjoy it. And not have a problem. I finally, I think I got to the point where you are now, where I said, eh, forget it, I'm, I'm not I'm not going to worry about it anymore. I'm married happily. So many years old and I, I've lived my life. I don't have to date anybody.
And, and it really, I think even if I had to date somebody and they would pretty much have to take me as, as I am. So [00:23:00] yeah, I, I think, I, I do, I take a lot of responsibility for. For your feelings.
Rachel: I grew up, I'm six years younger than Laurel. So I had, I was like the audience to them and I was a pretty skinny kid. I was a chubby, young toddler. My grandfather, father used to call me little fat face.
But I was. I was naturally thin for most of my childhood and through high school
I remember knowing I, I shouldn't be fat because that was bad. That was the message I got. I remember being a little kid, maybe Six or seven and we were clothing shopping and I think we were in a store And I think it was like a plus size store But it had like teenager clothes and I made a comment like I want to wear clothes like this one day meaning like I wanted to wear [00:24:00] the cool teenager clothes And you said, no, you don't.
These clothes are for fat people. And I just got the message. Yeah, you said that. And I think I just knew like I needed to be thin. And luckily I was a pretty, I was a pretty intuitive eater. I ate when I was hungry. I didn't, I don't know. I just, it wasn't something I really felt I thought about until my senior year of high school.
I was dating a boy who really liked carbs, and he would make these like Lipton rice packets and these Lipton, some other grain, like Forzo pasta or something, and it was, he'd eat pasta and rice. Pasta and rice. Yeah. And so I'm eating this, and then we went to this place called Doc Che's a lot that was a noodle house.
So I was eating a ton of carbs, and I gained a lot of weight my senior year. [00:25:00] I was very upset with myself.
I gained my freshman 15 basically the year before I went to college.
And so I think I was about 130 pounds, which I'm five feet tall. So that is, that's a lot. Like 130 pounds on a five foot tall person looks different than like on a five, five person. But I thought I was fat. I went to college not feeling very good about myself, but because I was at college, I could limit what I was eating.
So I pretty much, I think my freshman year I lived off of rice cake. And my, I think the same for my sophomore year. I had like ridiculous diets. I would eat like rice cakes I would measure my cereal out. And so I dropped the weight over those first two years. And our college had [00:26:00] a beautiful state of the art gym because it had a really good physical therapy program.
So it had this amazing gym. So I also lived up on a hill, so I'd walk down the hill to class and then up the hill every day back to my dorm. And it's a residential campus. So it's, I'm walking everywhere. I'm going to the gym pretty much every day. So I dropped the weight pretty quickly and I got really positive response to dropping the weight.
And I kept dropping the weight and I kept limiting what I was eating and exercising. And I remember there was this sort of. called ProAnna, and it's ProAnorexia. And I would look at these ProAnna websites that talk about, how it's, that it's attributed to Kate Moss. I don't know if she said it, but nothing tastes as good as skinny fields.
And I was a [00:27:00] size double zero in Abercrombie and Fitch clothes. So that's probably even less than that. I was super, super thin. And I remember one night I was living in an apartment by this time and some friends came over and we had been drinking and I got on the scale and I was 94 pounds and I was.
Devastated because I, was up four pounds from being 90 and I wanted to be 89 pounds. That was my goal. And even that skinny, I still thought I was fat. I would still look in the mirror and find every flaw and I would. Just see where I could lose weight, and I didn't like that my, stomach folded a little bit when I sat down.
I wanted a completely flat stomach, and I think that's, I think junior or senior year was when you guys started getting concerned because I was super duper thin.
Laurel: You were looking sickly. You, your cheeks were sunken in, you had this [00:28:00] gray tone to your skin. I mean you were really starting to look.
Rachel: Heroin chic.
Laurel: I
Rachel: mean I was trying, I don't think, and that this was like early 2000s, but it was still like the thigh gap was a thing, you wanted You didn't want your size to touch. And I worked in Manhattan the year I graduated. And so there, I was walking constantly and so it's easy to stay that thin there.
But I remember there were all these supermodels in New York. You just see them walking down the street, all these maybe they were models or not, but they're all gorgeous and they're all tall and they're all super duper thin. And I remember talking to one of my colleagues, I was like, Look, her size don't touch.
And she's got this tiny little bottom. And she was like you look like that. And I didn't believe her. And I remember I don't know. I [00:29:00] just, I, there was so much I didn't let myself enjoy it. Cause I was so worried about how I looked. And I remember, I think I went back up to Ithaca to visit some college friends, like we all met up there and we had gone hiking and a friend took pictures and.
This was like when you could first, I sound so old, you could first share pictures online. I forget if it was on their like, live journal or whatever, but they posted the pictures that they had taken. And I had a tiny little I probably had a sandwich or something, like just teeniest little bump, but I just obsessed over it the whole day, how fat I was.
Now, 20 something years, 30 something years later, like I'm still like, remember how I felt. And so I moved back to Atlanta and wasn't walking as much, but I still didn't like, I gained, I put some weight back on, but honestly, I probably needed to put [00:30:00] back on, but I beat myself up over it and even I remember on my wedding day, Like not wanting you to tighten my dress too tight because I was worried about back fat and Having back fat and then
Pam: My dress
Rachel: was falling down half the night I didn't let you guys tighten it as much as you need to tighten it because I was worried it would look bad in the photos I mean I have had body dysmorphia forever probably but definitely starting in high school through Today.
And it's hard because I've had two very giant babies and my body is different now. Like my bones are wider. My like things are shifted around. My body's different. I weigh more than I did. I feel like I weigh too much. I definitely have more of a stomach that some of [00:31:00] that's from just being stretched out.
I'm trying to accept myself for how I am, and I feel like that's a daily practice. And there, I feel like I live in a time where there's a lot more body positivity, and there's a lot more social media accounts around body positivity. There's this one Birds papaya she's gorgeous. . She was just like, just walked the catwalk for sports illustrated. And that's the other thing you never would have seen like a normal looking person doing anything for sports illustrated in the eighties or nineties.
or even early 2000s. And so we're in this place now where the fact is we don't, we can't all look like supermodels. The supermodels don't even look like supermodels, like that's airbrushed. And it's also a moment in time. If somebody had taken a picture of me at 20 years old. And then showed it to me today and was like, why don't you look like that?
That's unfair. That's a snapshot. That's like a [00:32:00] movement in time. We're constantly changing. Our bodies, our cells regenerate every seven years. Like we're not the same physical people. And so one big area has been swimming with my kids and. And I'm all about put on the bathing suit and get in the pool because your kids aren't going to remember what you look like.
They're not going to care what I look like in a bathing suit, but they care that I'm in the pool with them swimming, but I am bad about photos. And whenever my husband takes a picture of me, for some reason I look horrible, but it catches me at the worst time. But I'm trying to be better about getting in the photo too, because I know I'll be older one day and wish I had more photos of my kids.
I think it did impact me a little bit differently because I wasn't getting The brunt of it, but I was watching like what it did to you and what it did to you. And I think I went to a few Weight Watchers meetings [00:33:00] with you when I was a kid, just like you didn't have anywhere else to take me. So I went along and I went to an exercise class and I feel like my relationship with exercise has changed a lot too.
Cause I think I did it in college more to, for physical benefits. And then I got really into yoga in my late twenties and thirties. And I did that more for the mental. Benefits and now I go and walk every day and I think it really is more for my mental health than trying to lose weight or and just to stay healthy and active and also I want to stay active because I want to be able to maybe play with my grandkids one day like I want to be able to get up and down off the floor like so now I feel like I look at fitness like I'm doing these things so that I can stay flexible and Be able to move until I'm very old.
Rachel: [00:34:00] What role has media played in shaping your perception of body image?
Pam: I think it's huge because we're constantly being inundated with these photos of what is supposed to be perfect? And we all have certain body types and not all of them are considered perfect body types.
And I don't care how much you Diet, you're not going to change your basic body type, whether you're an apple or a pear or a tangerine or whatever you are, you're basically going to be that body type. You might be a smaller one I've gotten quite thin recently.
And I'm never going to be that ideal body type no matter how thin I get. And I think, I think it took me a while to realize that. And, growing [00:35:00] up, you're just supposed to diet and oh, you'll have this perfect body type and, you'll grow five inches and, you'll look like a supermodel.
Pam: That's not true. And so we're chasing after the impossible dream. And I think that's so unfair for young girls. And women, we're never going to be the ideal. And even the ideals aren't the ideals. They're having Brazilian butt lifts. And they're having, ribs taken out. So they're, so their waists are thinner.
And we're doing all of this stuff to our bodies. That I don't think if we had the pressure on us from the media and the internet now, I don't think that a lot of that would be done. There's a lot more plastic surgery today than there ever was and younger. When I was growing up, they wouldn't do plastic surgery on a [00:36:00] 15, 16 year old, but they do now.
And you talk about body positivity, but there's also a hell of a lot of body shaming that goes on. And that has not really changed. People are trying to address it. But even with diets, diet culture today, people are being shamed for being on these medications which are finally helping them lose weight.
Now why? What difference does it make? If they're taking A drug, ozempic or manjaro or whatever, and they're finally losing weight. They're doing what everybody has wanted them to do, and they're getting shamed for it.
Rachel: And I think what happens is there's still that belief, I think ingrained in us that there's, you have done something wrong if you're [00:37:00] overweight and you're overweight because you haven't tried hard enough, or you haven't.
worked out hard enough. You're lazy. And so the narrative is you're just cheating now by taking this drug. And I think that's horrible because we know that's not true. People can not eat anything and work out every day and still not drop weight because of how your body chemistry is and how you Metabolize food and I agree.
I mean if it's helping them be healthy Why not take the drug? That's what we all wish. We all wish there was a magic pill Yeah, and then there is something like that and then we give people a hard time for taking It's just I wish it was more
Laurel: Accessible. Accessible. Yeah
Rachel: I
Pam: mean,
Rachel: I
Pam: know people think that, it can be overused and it gets into Hollywood and every actress is taking it [00:38:00] and whatever, but so what?
That's really my attitude.
Laurel: Hopefully they have a doctor following them. But I'm someone a 1200 calorie diet doesn't do anything for. I literally have to be on 7 800 calories to lose weight. And, that's not sustainable at all.
Pam: No.
Diets in general aren't sustainable.
And, it's like a punishment. You're being punished. And it shouldn't be like that. Food is a daily necessity. And the way I eat today is much different than how I ate in the past because I used to sneak food
and,
That kind of thing and hide it and all of that.
So I've developed this whole disorder around food. Today I don't hide anything. If I want to have a cookie, I have a cookie. If I want ice cream, I have ice cream. But I don't eat. What would happen is I would deprive myself so much that it would turn into a binge situation.
Laurel: [00:39:00] Yeah. You rebel.
Pam: Yeah.
Laurel: If you really want to go down a rabbit hole, the whole American food industry is a nightmare. Because, our portion sizes are ridiculous. We've got convenience foods, fast food, everything comes in a package. So it's not good for you. It's processed, it's chemicals, it's been engineered, and.
You're not eating real food. You're not eating The good foods you're supposed to be in these other countries look at us and think we're crazy and we're thinking I've got six jobs and 12 kids and you know I've got to get to six different soccer practices and we're just going to eat, Pack of whatever lunchable or whatever on the way Yeah it's all about convenience.
Rachel: There was remember the Special K diet. It was like, replace two meals with special K and you'll lose weight. Here, eat this processed wheat.
Laurel: They don't pitch that anymore, do they? No,
Rachel: it's not healthy. And so I was in Italy last year [00:40:00] and we had someone on our trip who had a gluten intolerance and she decided to try some of the bread because it was like Real bread made from real wheat, like nothing GMO, nothing processed.
She was fine.
Laurel: Yeah.
Rachel: And that says a lot about the quality of our food here. And that.
Laurel: And you also hear A lot of these other countries don't have the kind of peanut allergies we have or the strawberry allergies we have or the gluten intolerance we have or the lactose intolerance we have. And, it all goes down to how we're processing it and preserving it and all of that.
If you were eating them fresh off the tree, I'm sure it would be a different story.
Rachel: I think media has, In some ways has changed a lot, but I think to your point, mom, and other ways it has not, and it's very gendered also.
I don't think men spend as much time as women thinking about these things. Now, [00:41:00] yes, men can have body dysmorphia and they can have body image issues and they have their own kind of body image issues to deal with. But I feel like women, we spend so much of our brain power thinking about this.
Pam: I think so much of your worth. and how you're viewed as a person is caught up in how you look and what you weigh. And you go into a job interview, for example, what's the first thing they do?
They look at you. The minute you walk in and you're overweight, they say not good not smart, lazy, and that isn't true. It's just not true, but some people won't even give you a chance. And so much of the romance culture is based on, how you look and whether you're worthy of having a boyfriend or
not,
and that's a [00:42:00] terrible message to give people and women.
Women, I just think that's, So bad. And then, you're fat. You're not a good mother. You can't be a good mother. You must be lazy. You must be, laying down and eating bonbons all day.
Rachel: My kids favorite thing to do to me is to play the drums on my stomach and make it jiggle.
And it was funny. My, my daughter was pressing on my belly and she said, Mama, why is your belly so big? And my first reaction Was to be offended. And then I said, I thought about it and I said it's so big because you used to be in there and your brother was in there. I said, do you like my belly?
And she said, yeah, I do. And so she wasn't saying that as a negative thing. She was just asking, why is it so big? And I think that's something too, that I'm very aware of having a daughter is. how I [00:43:00] talk about my body in front of her, how I talk about her body. We, I do have a scale and I should just get rid of it.
And occasionally she'll get on the scale. And I'll say, wow, look how strong you are. Cause I don't want her to think about how much she's weighing and she's a bean pole and I don't, and she lives off of cupcakes. So I don't know, but even if she wasn't a bean pole, like I still, I'm trying to break this cycle.
I don't want her to have to think about it and think that her worth is in what she looks like. And I don't want her to think about that. And I know it'll come. It always comes from school or kids or like the media. She'll get it in enough places, but I'm trying to, like having a daughter has really forced me to think about how I'm talking about myself, how my husband even talks about himself and we have a son what message are we sending to him [00:44:00] too?
And it's not easy. But I don't make any sort of comment on her or her weight. I'll tell her she looks beautiful. But I also try to tell her how smart she is and how funny she is and how strong she is, because I want her to know that she's more than just.
Laurel: It's a struggle as a parent.
I've got two boys, but I can't tell you it's different. Maybe, my oldest is a beam police, tall and thin. And, he eats horribly, but I haven't had to even You know, my, my concern has been getting enough nutrition into him. It's never been about his weight. My little one's pudged up this year and I'm really struggling because, initially it didn't bother me so much, but, we were at a swimming party this past weekend, birthday party, and I'm realizing he is pudgier than a lot of his friends.
And, he's also on the smaller side and it just is [00:45:00] worrying me. And, I'm trying. He'll go help himself to snacks after school and everything and he'll eat an apple, but he'll also eat a handful of cookies and I try not to interfere with that or judge on that or, put anything on him, say anything, but then it's like, when do I need to step in or do I need to step in, and I said something when we were at the doctor's office and, she said he's in the normal range, but yeah, maybe we should do a growth check in a few months and see, make sure he's, Getting ready for a growth spurt, and this isn't going to be an issue.
And, my husband and I both have. Had a history of weight issues, and I don't want to put that on him, but I also don't want to make him crazy about it either. And he, he started, I think, sneaking food. And I don't know where that's coming from because I've never gotten on him about it, but I've noticed he's started.
I was reading with him before bed one night, and he was down next to his bed, and he was sneaking something from under his bed, and I don't know what it was, [00:46:00] and, the other night, he had something under his shirt, and he was standing in the corner trying to hide it, and, I'm like, what is that?
What's in your shirt? What do you have? And he just wouldn't nothing. I'm like, you're gonna stand there all night?
Pam: I'd leave him alone. I think he's at that age where, kids sometimes beef up and he's gonna grow and that's gonna go away. And think after his 25th cookie, it's okay to say, okay, I think you've had enough cookies now because it's not healthy for you.
Rachel: I think that he is a sweet, awesome kid.
Pam: He's adorable.
Rachel: He feels good about himself. Then, Just let him be. I think mom's right. If he has 25 cookies, like with my daughter I want her to eat less cupcakes more because I don't want her to get diabetes or something just from living off sugar because that's one of the only things she eats but if she's got had four cupcakes and she wants [00:47:00] another one I'll say no that's enough you've had four cupcakes that's a lot and we talk about too about how the sugar makes her feel because she always has a sugar crash and you know so we talk more about that than about like I don't want you to get fat you know we don't say that but it's I think it's one thing to teach them how to eat healthy, but it's hard.
I understand it's hard for us, especially when we've had such a disordered relationship with food. So I don't know, but I think he'll be fine.
But I think that was our advice portion.
Pam: I think so too.
Rachel: I really appreciate both of you and your honesty and talking about this.
as the three of us, because I know, we've all been in it together for all these years. And I think we're, we all did the best we could at the time, and we're all doing the best we can as parents, and we're all [00:48:00] here,
Pam: I think if you're not honest, you don't learn anything. And if you don't reflect on what your behavior was and what the consequences of it were, you're never going to grow.
And I want this to stop with your generation. And I want there to be more acceptance. Because I just think it's a terrible way to grow up, to feel bad about yourself all the time. There's something that you have limited control over, really. And I really appreciate you girls for giving me, some grace in this and understanding that, I was a product from where I came from too.
And that's not an excuse, but it does, it, it does have some bearing.
Rachel: Oh, we love
you.
Pam: I love you too.
Rachel: We have a few episodes left in our first season. If you like us, please [00:49:00] tell people about us. Please leave a positive review. You can find our website at generation mom pod. com or on Instagram at generation mom pod. And we'll see you next week.