Episode 2 Transcript - Love & Marriage
Rachel: [00:00:00] The content of this podcast, Generation Mom, is for entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and their guests are their own and do not constitute professional advice. While we strive to provide accurate and up to date information, this podcast is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional, medical, financial, legal, or other advice.
Always seek the advice of a qualified professional with any questions you may have regarding your specific situation. Thanks for listening.
Hey there, Rachel here. I just wanted to give a quick heads up that there's a brief mention of abusive relationships in this episode, but we don't go into details. Also, before we dive into today's episode on relationships and dating, we wanted to acknowledge that this episode focuses primarily on heterosexual dating experiences.
We don't really cover LGBTQ plus or interracial relationships in depth. We want to be [00:01:00] clear that this isn't to exclude anyone. It's simply because, as three, straight identifying white women, we recognize that we're not the best voices to speak on those experiences. We deeply respect and support all relationships and hope to feature guests in the future who can share those perspectives.
We hope that you'll enjoy today's episode. Let's dive in!
Pam: I had pretty much a traditional, for my generation, a traditional dating experience. I would say I dated several different guys and I went steady with Let's see, before I met your father, maybe three or four of them, which I think is a lot different than today.
Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Generation Mom. I'm Rachel, the elder millennial who tries to stay grounded in all of the chaos of modern parenthood. I'm Pam, the Boomer [00:02:00] Mom, to my two co hosts and Nana to their kids. I've spent And I'm here to share my generational wisdom with a touch of tough love. And I'm Laurel, your Gen X voice of reason, stuck in the middle, ready to weigh in with unsugarcoated advice.
Join us as we tackle life's big questions across three generations, sharing laughs and insights along the way. This is Generation Mom.
Hello and welcome back to Generation Mom. We're back around the kitchen table. Today we are talking about dating, relationships, marriage across the generations. I'll go into a little deep dive about how each generation viewed dating and marriage. We'll talk a little bit about our own experiences as members of those generations. And then today I'm really excited because we will have an advice [00:03:00] segment using some real questions from users on Reddit. With that, we'll dive in.
We will start again with the boomers who really started to define dating culture. This group is split to what dating looked like in the fifties and what dating looked like in the sixties.
In the fifties Dating starts to become much more about youth culture than about family expectations. So family expectations definitely still played into that and who you might pick to date. But it was much more of a group activity. You would go on a date with someone, it would usually happen in a public place amongst other teens.
You would talk and get to know each other and usually the guy would pay. the man would usually ask a woman out to. It was considered improper for a lady to approach a man. And then after a few dates, you would go steady. Going steady was the term for being in an exclusive relationship. And you might [00:04:00] publicize that by wearing an item of clothing of your mate, such as a jacket, a sweater, or ring.
But when we think of the 50s, we tend to think of this period of purity. And it was, but there was also some sexual change going on. I saw mom's little face there.
So while premarital sex was less common, any promiscuity that did happen would usually happen in the car. The terms necking and petting were coined, the former referring to kisses and caresses above the neck, and the latter to the same below it. This is scandalous.
Laurel: So scandalous.
Rachel: So those terms entered the public discussion, giving names to previously unspoken private activities. People also started getting married younger in the fifties. During that decade, the median marriage dropped from 24.3 to [00:05:00] 22.6 for men, and from 21.5 to 20.4 for women in the sixties, youth began shirking old social conventions.
That was a time of free love. And this was the time the birth control pill also came about and really was the spark that led to the fire of the sexual revolution. People started more freely exploring their sexual feelings. Sex before marriage among young people was no longer taboo, although their parents would probably still consider it very taboo.
They did end up getting married, but during especially the summer of free love, it was more about experimentation and it was what ended up evolving into the modern day hookup culture.
In Helen Gurley Brown's renowned dating book, Sex and the Single Girl, which was originally published in 1962. She recommends some places you might find a mate because, keep in mind, this was [00:06:00] before social media and dating apps and dating agencies. And so some of the places she suggests includes on a plane, while shopping in the men's department, while driving in heavy traffic.
And at Alcoholics Anonymous,
Helen Gurley Brown said, just make sure you go to a wealthy chapter of AA because it might as well start with a story. Solvent problem child, say someone with liquid assets. sixties. Divorce also started becoming more widely accepted.
Cause there was a bit more of an increased emphasis on individuality. So if you were in an unhappy marriage beginning in the sixties, people started to Explore divorce. This era was also when the age of no fault divorce started. So you could end the marriage simply because you wanted to without providing cause.
So even as baby boomers [00:07:00] continue to age, they divorce more than any other age group. Between 1990 and 2012, the divorce rate for 55 to 64 year olds more than doubled. For the 65 and older crowd, that number more than tripled, they're calling it The gray divorce. Gen X experienced a transition from the traditional structured dating practices of the past to a more casual and varied approach influenced both by social change and the early stages of technology. If you were looking at the pre digital era, which would have been the late 70s, 80s, dating often started through traditional means like school or work or People you met in social situations.
Your family or friends would usually introduce you to somebody. Formal dating and courtship were still pretty common. And somebody would ask somebody out on a date, you'd meet the parents, you'd have that more structured relationship path. There were still clear [00:08:00] norms and etiquette around dating.
Men were still generally expected to initiate dates and pay for activities, but there was more of an acceptance of a woman initiating dates. It wasn't as taboo as it had been for the boomers. There was a shift though towards more casual dating and less emphasis on immediate long term commitments. So this was partly influenced by the sexual revolution of the 60s and other changing.
Societal attitudes. So then in the 80s and 90s before the internet, you had personal ads in the newspaper. If you watch movies from the 80s and 90s, you might see a personal ad. So this was a way for people to connect and find potential dates, which I find terrifying now. Like you stick your name in the newspaper And meet a random stranger, but I guess we get in random strangers cars now on Uber.
Before the internet, there were video dating services that emerged where individuals could record video profiles that others could view [00:09:00] marking the early stages of technology to find partners. And if you go on YouTube and search 80s dating videos, you can find some pretty funny.
Ones on there in the 90s. It was the beginning of online dating match. com came out in 1995, and it was a significant shift from traditional dating methods to finding new ways to meet potential partners. There were also chat rooms on the internet and forums, and that became a popular place for socializing and meeting new people, often leading to romantic connections.
Gen X actually has higher rates of remaining married than previous generations. In the 1990s, about 70 percent of Generation X made it to their 15th anniversary compared to 65 percent in the 70s and 80s. Some say that Gen Xers were more skeptical about marriage because of the doubling divorce rate that happened during their generation.
Their parents were getting [00:10:00] divorced more often. This skepticism, along with the desire to avoid divorce, may have actually led Gen Xers to marry and have children later in life, often after cohabitating. So they knew what they were getting into. They're staying married longer. And some of the studies I found showed that Gen Xers that got married later in life were more likely to stay married long term.
For the millennials, we continue to see this impact of digital technology. So we had a more fluid and diverse landscape compared to previous generations. Millennials are the first generation to widely use apps like Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge.
These platforms offer a vast array of potential partners and a different approach to meeting people. Social media also plays a significant role in how millennials meet and communicate. Millennials tend to delay marriage and long term commitments compared to previous generations. But there are a lot of factors to this, like career focus, educational pursuits, and economic [00:11:00] instability.
But there are a lot of factors to this, like career focus, educational pursuits, and economic instability. There's a greater acceptance of casual dating and non traditional relationships among millennials. Concepts like friends with benefits and open relationships are more openly discussed and practiced. And communications shifted significantly to texting and other forms of digital messaging. So no longer do you have to call up someone's house and talk to their parents and ask them out on a date, but you can text them. But this has also created some different. Dynamics such as the phenomena of ghosting and bread crumbing. 44 percent of millennials are married, 53 percent of Gen X and 61 percent of boomers. And 81 percent of silents were married at a comparable age, silents are the parents of the boomers. 81 percent say that being single benefits them beyond their romantic lives as they're more able to make new friends, have more time for personal wellness, and be more dedicated to [00:12:00] their work.
The most common first date activity among millennials is to grab a coffee. Millennials have an average of 8 sexual partners. 43 percent of Millennials say their ideal relationship is non monogamous, and 43 percent also say it's monogamous. I don't think that adds up to a hundred. I'm not sure what the others think. And then millennials spend an average of 69 on their first date. Pam, we'll start with you, our representative of boomers.
What was your experience like with dating and relationships growing up in your formative years?
Pam: All right I guess I would have to start in the 60s. Sort of the mid sixties because I was, I really a kid in the nineteen fifties. And I would say that dating for us looked vastly different [00:13:00] than, It does today. We usually met at school or through a friend or through our parents. Our parents would fix us up with people, which never really went very well, . And I would say that most of us didn't really date until we were about.
16 or 17. That was around the age where parents allowed you to today. And we dated, which means that on Friday night, I might go out with Dick on Saturday night. I might go out with Mike on Sunday night. I might go out with Bob and we dated. We went somewhere. We had an ice cream Sunday. We went to the movies.
We talked, we got to know one another.
This is just how we did it. And then once we dated for a while then we would, as you said, [00:14:00] go steady. Which meant, okay, we were in somewhat of a monogamous relationship.
I had pretty much a traditional, for my generation, a traditional dating experience. I would say I dated several different guys and I went steady with Let's see, before I met your father, maybe three or four of them, which I think is a lot different than today. And in my generation, your parents were involved a lot more.
So you know, like the guy had to meet my parents and sometimes ask permission, for me to go out with them. And we had all kinds of curfews and deadlines that we had to meet to come home.
We used to talk about bases, like baseball, like getting to First [00:15:00] base, second base, third base, and home base. And it was acceptable to go to first base. That was nothing. That was what I guess you were talking about, necking. And the other ones were more controversial at that time.
I'm not going to say they weren't done, but they were much more controversial, I think, than they are today. And, there were restrictions within your dating. So depending on your family. Sometimes your social status played a part. Sometimes your religion played a part, your parents only wanted you to date within your religion.
So you were prohibited from dating anybody outside your religion. And of course within the different races there, That was a real taboo back then. So I think in those ways, I feel anyway that today's better [00:16:00] because, I don't believe you can really restrict who you fall in love with.
You fall in love with who you fall in love with and it's very hard to be told, no, you can't love that person or you can't be with that person. That's pretty much what it was like in my era.
There was this guy that I actually met through a friend of my mother's His name was And he lived out of my city, so he would come in to visit his aunt and we would date, when he came in to visit his aunt and we got, I can't say serious but we liked each other pretty much.
And then when I came home from college, my. I think it was my junior year. I was already dating daddy. He came over to the house and he wanted to take me to the club for dinner. And so I said don't think I can cause my boyfriend is here visiting. So he [00:17:00] pulled a little box out of his pocket and he presented me with a ring and asked me to marry him.
Rachel: Oh my
Pam: goodness. Which was sitting in contact with you during college? No, which was a total shock. I was totally shocked. Yeah, we really didn't date that seriously. And I never, imagined that he had those kind of feelings for me.
And then, you know the story about my parents were some of those parents that would have preferred me to date, within my religion, and we were different religions. And so they made it as hard as possible for us to date. And so before I went to college, I broke up with him. And because I didn't think it was fair that I was going to be away in school and he was going to, I forget what he wasn't going to college at that point. I think he was joining the Navy or something at that point. And I didn't want to have him be you know, so [00:18:00] restricted that he felt like he couldn't date anybody.
And at that point, and in that time, in that culture, I felt that it was probably a good idea for me to marry within my religion. That's what happened with him.
Rachel: So you and daddy dated for three years before you got married. Was that considered a long time then? Were you getting pressure to get married? Was, or was that sort of the norm in the mid sixties?
Pam: I think it was average. And the fact that we were in college. So I started dating him my freshman year and I married him the end of my junior year, I think. Which was unusual. Usually you waited until you graduated to get married. Unless you got pregnant or something like that
Laurel: and
Pam: you had
Laurel: to get married.
If you didn't wait, did a lot of women drop out after getting [00:19:00] married? Yes. I had a roommate. Even if they weren't pregnant? Yes. I had a roommate who got married the end of December. Our junior year and she dropped out of college. Yeah, that was a problem. I didn't want to do that. And actually I had to promise my father that I would not drop out.
Pam: That I would stay. if they allowed me to get married that, that year.
Some dated. For maybe five years. But I would say around three was pretty average. And that's when your parents wanted you to. make a commitment or something. Just make a decision by that.
Laurel: Now, another interesting sort of layer on your life is you went to a boarding school for high school. How do you think that was different compared to your public school classmates?
Pam: That could be a whole episode.[00:20:00]
But let me just briefly say, okay, I went to an all girls. boarding school in the middle of Vassalboro, Maine, with the chickens. And to talk about being remote, this place was really remote.
At this school, I was pretty young at the time, but there, there really wasn't any dating. What they would do is they would have dances between a boys boarding school and our boarding school. And the boys would come and, they'd have a dance for us. So some girls did, have boyfriends through that.
When I was when I was coming up on my junior year of high school, I went home and I was tired of living in this winter rotunda with the chickens, and I said to my parents, I don't want to go to school anymore there. I want to go to a different school. I want to go to my high school or [00:21:00] I want to go to a different boarding school that's co ed. They were really against that. It was a big fight. But finally I got my way. So I went to boarding school to a boarding school that was co ed and, oh boy, that was like a freedom and it was so much fun and,
Rachel: was that interlock?
Pam: Yeah. And I just, I couldn't believe that, there were boys sitting in the classroom with me.
So, yeah, so that's when I started dating.
Rachel: I have one last question for you. So you got married, you were 21 when you got married.
I just turned 21. 21 then and 21 today feels a lot different. But did you feel more prepared at that age to get married or did you feel like you were young or what since that age? I would be covered. That was about the average age of marriage. Did it just seem like [00:22:00]
Laurel: everybody else was doing?
Pam: I think it's the same probably today at 21 you feel like you're an adult. Was I prepared for, was I prepared for marriage? No, not really. I had no clue. Absolutely no clue. I really went into it pretty blind. I, as I didn't have great role models um, I didn't even have that.
But it was expected. I guess it's the best way I can put it. And what else are you going to do? You're graduating from college. Now what are you gonna do? I actually was on a career path, and I actually continued on in college to get my master's degree. A lot of women didn't do that.
They got their degree, then they got married and that. That was it. They were mothers and housewives and all [00:23:00] that. So I guess the answer to your question is no I wasn't prepared. I was certainly not a grownup. And when I look at 21 year olds today, it's I'm looking at a baby.
And I think, sometimes I get these chills and think, how did I do that? But it was like, you got pushed into it and you did it. You just. Fell into it and did it.
Rachel: So Laurel, we're gonna move to you and your experience with dating. So you were really of the dating age in the 90s more than the 80s.
Laurel: I can speak to the 80s. Sure. You were around. I was around. I was not dating till the very end of it. But first I think, I feel like I want to just state, because we all know this, but people listening may not. All three of us are currently married and we're all married to our first husbands. We don't, none of us have had a divorce, [00:24:00] various different dating experiences, but that's just like some perspective there to say I'd say in the eighties, like, going to a bar was a big way to meet people. And, when you'd ask people how they met at the bar, that was the big spot.
I remember dating shows, dating game shows were a big thing on TV the dating game, that's what it's called. So literally the dating game. And then, the classified ads, I had forgotten that till Rachel mentioned it, but that's true. You'd have, how we have all the acronyms.
Acronyms now like LOL and all of that, there was SWF, single white female and, all of that and you would know and like people still in my group, at least, joke about likes long walks on the beach and, hiking and that's what the classified ads were like, single white female singing, seeking sequel, single white male, for long walks on the beach must love dogs, like this kind of thing.
Now I. Obviously, I was a kid, so I wasn't doing any of that, but I was aware [00:25:00] of it. It was around me. And then in the 90s, at least when I was in high school, before the internet like I said, you met people at parties, you met people at school the internet was just starting when I started college, and I also went to a college that was big on internet development, so I don't know if we were ahead of the times as far as internet availability and accessibility. What year did you start college?
Ninety four. And It was very I remember through those years, it was really taboo to have met your partner on the internet. When people talk about meeting their partners on Match. com or, oh my god, Tinder, that, that was you never wanted to have to tell someone who was a parent that you met your partner on Tinder.
on the internet. And so that was very taboo. And today it's so just accepted and just run of the mill normal. That is so crazy that's where we've [00:26:00] come to from where we were. I think, Personally, I didn't do a ton of dating ever. I really didn't date in high school. I went to a very small private high school.
There were only 66 kids in my graduating class and nine of them were boys. Most of my friends were in the class below me. I certainly had my share of crushes, but I'm very introverted. I'm very not confident. And, didn't have those opportunities, throughout high school.
And then in college, I have to say again, I had a big friend group and I really picked and chose, choose from my friend group because I was terrified of meeting people at a bar or meeting people at a party or meeting people online because these were strangers. And I, what do you know about me that you're coming up to me [00:27:00] at a party?
You don't know me. Like, why are you? It freaked me out. And again,, this is me. This is not my generation necessarily, I always had these visions that I'd go out with some stranger and end up in pieces along the highway. We watch a lot of true crime and you watched
Rachel: a
Laurel: lot of
Rachel: Dateline and unsolved mysteries.
The
Laurel: stranger scared the crap out of me. So if I didn't have like people vouching for you and who knew you introducing you to me. Yeah, I stayed away. So I had one boyfriend initially in college, who was awful and he lasted about a year, I think. And then, and like mom said, she always hated this about me too, is, that we have the serial monogamy is what she would call it where, we just would latch onto someone we, and that's what you did. Casual dating was still really not looked at, those were hookups and that was still not what good girls did, and so you [00:28:00] went on a few initial dates and then yeah, you were together until you weren't. And in some cases that was harder to get out of than others. And that's the situation I found myself in with that relationship. And then, my second boyfriend I was with, all told, I think seven years and we did live together briefly that didn't last very long, and probably should never have happened in the first place but, and then soon after my husband and I started dating in that case, again, he still was, tangentially from that friend group.
But he was in a different state and I had moved back here by that point. So we were long distance dating throughout our relationship and even after we got married for a little bit. And I would go up and stay with him. I was a teacher at the time, so I would go up and stay with him in the summers.
But, so to whatever point that is considered living together, we did. And then we got married. I think we dated maybe three years [00:29:00] and got married. I moved up there after the wedding. And then I hated it. I hated it.
And I did not acclimate at all. I couldn't find a job. It was horrible. And, this is me coming again from my viewpoint of And I hate to say this, because I've always thought of myself as such a strong, independent woman, and here I am admitting to an abusive relationship, and now, this relationship where I thought he's the man, he makes more money, I'm just a teacher, I can get a job anywhere.
And, I moved up there, after the wedding and, started looking for a job. First of all, we got married in August. So that's not the best, most opportune time to be looking. Of course, I had been looking all through, the months ahead of the wedding. I had a hundred million interviews and I never, I always placed second.
Like they would call me and say, Oh, we loved you. We thought you had great ideas. We loved your portfolio. But we went with someone else and it got really, [00:30:00] after a year of that, it got really demoralizing. So then I gave up looking. I started looking back here again.
While I was living with him that year, another thing that I came to find out was he hated his job. We went through some strikes and things. There were some issues that happened that just made me realize we never should have done this in the first place.
Like he should have come here. And so I looked online that next summer and found a job. And I flew down to interview for it.
Pam: No, first you called me and said, Mom, can you pick me up at the airport?
And I said, yeah, but why? I'm coming into town. Okay I'm gonna have a job interview and I'm thinking should I ask her? What happened? They haven't been married that long.
Laurel: So I went to this job interview. I flew down for the weekend and went to this job [00:31:00] interview.
And yeah, he hired me on the spot. And not only that, he made me call my husband in his office with him sitting there and tell him I got the job. And I'm like I think we should probably, I should probably go home and discuss this with him and, see what we think about this, because we live in another state right now and you realize we're going to have to make it, Multi state move and like he's hey, yeah, it's just calm.
And so I moved down within a couple weeks, I think it was two weeks, and left him in Indiana.
He's a brilliant guy. He has multiple degrees like he had no trouble getting actually a huge improvement in job both in satisfaction and money and Then we moved him down a couple months later.
And my job, I ended up leaving a few years later. It was not the best job in the world, but it was, I think, the best decision we've made. Our lives have just [00:32:00] improved tremendously since, and we're celebrating 19 years next month.
Rachel: So another Gen X er who got married a little bit later, how old were you when you
Laurel: got married?
Just before I turned 30.
Rachel: Yeah,
Laurel: I
Rachel: forgot to say that. Yeah.
And you've been married almost 20 years.
For me, I will say, And again, I feel like I'm coming at this from the perspective of, I'm at, at the tail end of the Gen Xers and the beginning of the Millennials, so I've I feel like I'm too, was too old to really, too far into the online dating, like Tinder came about by the time I was already Dating my husband.
Yeah. But match. com was around and that sort of thing. But I can't even call it dating. I had little boyfriends because probably when I was like 13 or 14, I had like my Sunday school boyfriend and then my, I did this program called people, the people student ambassador. And so he, I had a boyfriend there, but he was like, he didn't go to [00:33:00] my school.
He lived in. A city far from us, so we rarely actually saw each other, but he was my boyfriend and that meant I couldn't date other people, but then I also had a boyfriend at my high school and I overlapped with that boyfriend and we'd go on dates. But again, it was the serial monogamy of you're my boyfriend.
We might go on a date or two and then decide like we're boyfriend and girlfriend. You were just polygamous. Now it's called polyamorous. But they didn't know about each other. It wasn't like a
Laurel: group thing. They didn't know about
Rachel: each other. That's true. I guess it was non monogamy and it wasn't, there was something called ethical non monogamy, but that was not ethical.
That they have to know about. Cause. They didn't know about it. So I was just a bad person. You were also like
Laurel: 13, 14. Yeah.
Rachel: And then, and yeah, in high school, I think, my junior year of high school, I started dating [00:34:00] I was a theater nerd But not like a good enough theater nerd to get the good parts, but a nerd enough to hang out with all the theater kids.
So I started dating a boy in my class and he wasn't the best either. So Laurel and I both have the controlling, semi abusive pattern. I called you out on it so bad, but I went into the same thing. You don't see it when you're in it. And I think that's something, we can have a whole episode just on that, but you don't see it when you're in it and you're, I was a romantic.
And I think that's been to my detriment because I want things to work out and I want it to be a great love story. And so I stayed with him longer. I let it impact where I went to college. And I remember the TV show Felicity was on around the same time and in the show Felicity, she, Changes her college at the last minute to go chase a boy.
And I did that and it [00:35:00] worked out for me. I was lucky because I did have a really great college experience. I don't regret where I went to school. It actually ended up being a good fit for me because I had come from a small. Private school, very liberal private school. And the college I chose was a very small liberal private school.
And I, I had a really good college experience, but I don't know. I saw the light with that relationship end of our sophomore year. And I remember he lived in Atlanta too. So we came home for the summer and broke up just one night in the summer. I think I was over at his house and just realized like, I'm done with this one.
And so we broke up. The best relationship I had in college was with my roommate because she and I were roommates all four years and we still love each other to this day. And she's one of those friends who you don't see or talk to in a long time and then you pick right back up.
Where you left off. But so she was witness to a lot of this. [00:36:00] We had another, through our friend group at the time, I met my next boyfriend and there was not a big gap in between. There was only a few months in between, I think. And so I started seeing. This other guy and that relationship ended up lasting seven years.
And I think there were times where I thought maybe this will be the end of our relationship. It's like after college, we ended up, we did live together in New Jersey. And I was working in Manhattan and he was working in Southern. New Jersey. So we were splitting our commute every day, one going one way, one going the other.
And I had a job that I absolutely hated. Like it was a good entry level job, but I call mom every day on the way home and cry and sob and I hate this job. I can't do it. And so similar to Laurel, I just, our lease was coming up and I just said to him, look, I'm moving back to Atlanta. You can come with me if you [00:37:00] want, but.
I'm going back home and he came with me and it was terrible because we lived in my parents house for a long time and he did not have a job and I had a job. I got a job right away and he had no drive or ambition and then we, I forced us to move out into our own apartment and then he ended up getting a job in New Hampshire and I thought, I think in the back of my mind, I thought we're not really going to make it through this.
So I'm just going to let it like run its course. And so I think he was in New Hampshire for about a year and we were dating long distance. So I was living on my own for the first time and really enjoying living by myself. And. It was, I was able to focus on my career and focus on friends and I remember being on this kickball team and there were a lot of guys on the [00:38:00] kickball team who were interested in me, but I still was I have a boyfriend.
I can't date you. And then I remembered. One day getting a call that he had gotten laid off from his job And he was coming back to Atlanta and I hung up the phone and I started crying Because I didn't want him to come back and I don't think like I fully understood why I was so upset Like it was in that I'm with this person.
We've been together so long. I'm supposed to really love them and so he ended up coming back. I had just moved into an apartment and I can't remember how long we lived in the apartment together, but one day I decided I was going to break up with him.
And I remember I was Googling. How do you break up with someone you've been in a long term relationship with? I was gonna get some script or something. I spent a whole week working up to it. Like how am I gonna do this? Cause I didn't have an easy out. I had to actually face this person and break up with [00:39:00] them.
And I knew I wanted to tell him. And I knew it would be blindsiding him because he had no clue. He thought I was happy and everything was fine. And so he came home one day from work and I sat him down at the table and I just said, I don't want to be in this relationship anymore. And he was very confused and why?
And I was just like, I just don't, I can't do this anymore. I don't love you. I just, I want something else for my life. And so I remember I came over to my parents house. I came here and mom and dad were gone. Like they were out somewhere. And I remember pouring myself a huge vodka tonic and sitting on their sofa and watching TV.
And then they came home and they were shocked to see me. But I just said, look. I broke up with my boyfriend and I'm going to live here for a couple of weeks while he gets his stuff together and gets out. [00:40:00] Then we went back for the cats and that was the whole thing.
So that was a really long term relationship that I, that took up most of my dating years. Really?
Laurel: You know what? I think it's so funny. I don't know if you guys know this term, but we always grew up hearing about the seven year itch. Yeah. And like. How a lot of relationships don't make it past that seven year and I didn't have that at all in my marriage like in my Marriage that first year was the hardest year and we always say now if we made it through that we'll make it through anything And but you and I both had long term relationships that died in the seventh year.
That's really funny Yeah, and
Rachel: I think it's true because I didn't have that with my husband like It was fine. Like seven years. And again, like we've had some really hard years and it's if we had made it through that, like we're going to make it. And I think that's the thing when you have someone you really love, like you want to make it through it.
You want to try. Yeah. And so it's funny because I was on after that relationship, I did join match. com and I think I joined [00:41:00] J date. I tried those, but I never went on a date with anybody that like I matched with or met. And then it's funny because I matched up on match. com with somebody I worked with. And it was so awkward going into work the next day because I knew he had seen it and I had seen it.
We just weren't talking about it. We just weren't.
Laurel: So neither of you were interested.
Rachel: I don't know. He was a really nice guy. I probably would have gone on a date with him, but it was just too weird. My husband grew up quite literally in my backyard. My sister had a friend and this was her friend's brother and our moms were Girl Scout leaders together. And so we met in the very old fashioned way of someone we knew through family
we knew each other as kids and we lived this parallel life where we were both in New York at the same time, both like back in Atlanta at the same time throughout our lives but never meeting up. And so we ended up [00:42:00] All going to dinner one night like siblings going to dinner and this was before I had broken up with my boyfriend and we ended up we didn't start dating then because I was in a relationship, but we started dating after I took a friend.
He was in a band and I took a friend to go see him at a bar when his band was playing and he saw me and lit up and knew me and yeah, He asked me out. I think right after that, he sent me a message on Facebook. So we still did use social media for our dating. And he asked me out on a first date. We went to a Chinese restaurant and had a nice dinner and talked, and he was a gentleman and drove me home.
And then he locked down the second date on the first date. And that impressed me. It showed he was a go getter. And so we went on a few dates. But here we are almost at. 12 years married in September,
Laurel: and how old were you when you got married?
Rachel: [00:43:00] I was 28 or 29. I can't No, I was 29 when I got married. So I also waited until later in life to get married. I love how 29 is later in life. For the time, I think. A lot of my peers had already gotten married.
I want to move us on to our advice segment because I picked some fun questions from Reddit. And I'll read their handles in case they're listening and what three,
Laurel: we have not pre read this information.
Rachel: Yes. This is new to Laurel and Pam.
All right. So our first question today comes from fee revolutionary 8, 007. I like a girl, but she's 25, 26 at the end of the year. I'm 34 next week. I want to ask her out but I worry I'm too old or she'll think I am. Am I overthinking this? [00:44:00] Is this an age gap which looks terrible?
Pam: I don't think it's terrible. I think What is that? It's nine years? Nine years? Eight years? No, I think that's fine. I wouldn't be worried about it. And you know what? What's the worst that can happen? She'll say no or she'll tell you're too old or whatever. But if, if you really like her and you don't go for it, you're never going to know.
So I would say no. I would say that would be acceptable.
Laurel: It's funny. I thought this was a girl liking a girl and I'm realizing we have no information if it's a girl or a boy, but I think so. I think, if you were 25 and she was 16, this is a whole different conversation, but, um, think about it.
We've got Leonardo DiCaprio is in his 60s or something, dating 20 year olds. You've got I, I think the biggest thing is just, And you would learn this by through dating her is if [00:45:00] she's on your maturity level and your interest level. And by 26, she could be, but the only way to really find that out is to go out with her a few times and, find out if you have common interests and if she's made that maturity evolution or if this is just a physical reaction you're having. But I don't think this is inappropriate for a few dates.
Rachel: Yeah, I would agree and I agree with what Laurel said about making sure that you have things in common, which you'll find out through dating. One thing, they say is this an age gap, which looks terrible and who are you worried about? Yeah. Thinking it looks terrible. Who cares what people think.
We see a lot worse in society than a nine year age difference, and you're both adults so I say go for it. Ask her out. Stop overthinking it. All right. Reasonable Handle 566 [00:46:00] says, Boyfriend doesn't help around the house. My boyfriend, 21 male, and I, 23 female, have been together for three years. We started living together with his parents right when we started dating, but have only been living in our own place for about one and a half years.
Around the house, he doesn't do much. I cook, I clean, etc. No matter what I do or say or how effectively I try to communicate to him that I would appreciate some help, he will maybe help for a week and then it goes back to how it was. I have to beg him to take the trash out, cut the grass, shovel when it snows, take the dog out, the list goes on.
I'm not naive and I understand this is not how it should be in a relationship, but I don't know what else I can do to get him to help me and respect me. He always has an excuse. Oh, I was too tired to do the dishes. I went to the gym. I didn't have time to cut the grass. He prioritizes things he wants to do over things a couple [00:47:00] needs to do to maintain the household.
I don't know if I should just keep trying to communicate these issues and hope he will one day listen to me and change, or if I should just end the relationship. I know he doesn't respect me. It's just tough because I love him so much. I just want to feel taken care of. And he's the man of the house and I just don't, I feel so alone.
I'd also like to add, as far as cooking dinner, he's always too tired to be the one to do it, but we'll go and cook dinner for himself and not include me.
Pam: The first thing I'm going to say is he's not going to change. And I don't care how much you cry or you beg or whatever, he's not going to change. And it's a fact with men that they have a very short attention span. So just because you tell him once that you want him to do the dishes.
that doesn't mean that he's going to do it every day. So [00:48:00] I guess my suggestion would be that you first realize that this guy is not going to change. So you've got to decide whether you can live with this situation, first of all. Second of all, You can put some things into place, like writing out a schedule, which you hang predominantly somewhere in the house or in the kitchen, to tell him what his duties are, Monday you take out the trash, Tuesday you take the dishes out of the dishwasher, Wednesday you do the dishes, whatever you need to write in there, but that may not work either.
And you may have to keep directing him to that. So if this is what you want your life to be, fine, stay with him. The other thing you could do, which is something that I have done in the past, is you can strike. And, he doesn't want to do the dishes, he doesn't want to take [00:49:00] out the trash, fine. So he won't have any clean underwear for a couple weeks.
He won't, have anything to eat. You're, you won't do the grocery shopping, you're just too tired to do the grocery shopping, and I have done this. I have done this in the past. It works, but they don't change. So you have to really decide whether you love him more than you hate that he doesn't do all of these things and that you can live with that because this is not going to change.
He's not going to change. I hate to tell you that, but I've been married 55 years, and when we clean the house, my husband does help me, but I have to direct him, and it's the same tasks that he does from week to week, but I have to direct him. What he needs to do so I decided I love him enough that I'm willing to do [00:50:00] that And but it hasn't changed in the 55 years that we've been together I don't know I think if I couldn't stand it.
I think this is a good time to get out That's my advice Laurel.
Laurel: I think the biggest red flags here are where she says I know he doesn't respect me and, should I keep trying or should I just end it now? Those two sentences right there I think tell us everything we need to know.
She already knows the answer. But the other, to address the actual issue here, which is just a symptom really. He's 21, and we could do a whole episode on raising boys versus raising girl expectations, but I'm a mom of two boys, and I am doing everything in my power to make sure this is not my kid.
My kids have chore charts, and [00:51:00] what mom said is true. They, every night, They do the exact same tasks. Now there may be additional tasks I add, but there are specific tasks that they are responsible for every night. And every night they come back to me after each thing is completed and say, what do I do next?
And we've been doing this for years. Every night they're supposed to put their dishes in the sink. Every night they're supposed to unload the dishwasher. They know this! And they still ask me. She's not wrong about that. But my hope is by the time they're 21 they know to do these things. First of all, you two are both very young, and so he may not have ever lived on his own before. His mom may have, treated him like a boy and not taught him to do these things and he just expects them to be done for him, which some men do because their moms always took care of them.
And so either you need to sit down, or anyone else who might be having a similar issue, sit down and divide the household duties. Especially if you're both working. These are [00:52:00] the things I'm responsible for. These are the things you're responsible for.
We each live here. Presumably we each pay towards this household. We also both need to be responsible for doing this. And you could put up a chore chart and that may feel like you're infantilizing your adult male partner and that may be the case and then you have to think about how that makes you feel.
One thing I wanna mention too is that she says she's 23 and he's 21. And I think that there's a big difference between a female 23-year-old and a male, 21-year-old. That's true. Yeah. In maturity and responsibility and things like that. I think that a 21-year-old male is way behind a 23-year-old female.
Pam: Yeah. In terms of maturity.
Rachel: I agree.
I agree with Aspects of what both of you said, I think first i'm going to say you're 23 [00:53:00] Kick his dusty ass to the curb go find yourself a partner who's mature and maybe who has lived on their own or enjoy being single for a little while cause you don't need this and he is younger.
He is definitely sounds more immature. And if you don't feel like he respects you, there's no reason to stay. I will say, for relationships. That chores and also the unseen, the invisible load, the mental load. That's a real thing with couples and it is important to feel like that is fairly distributed.
And that being fair might not be 50 50, but feeling like each person is pulling their own weight and contributing to. The family a resource that I've found helpful. There's a book called fair play and there's a documentary on Hulu called fair play. And there's even like a deck of [00:54:00] cards that comes with the book or that you can buy with the book that has different.
Chores on it because it's not just the chore like it's not just taking out the garbage is making sure we have Garbage bags, it's making sure you know what day the garbage needs to go out on the curb It's like all that other stuff that goes into it that you need to That person who's handling that chore to be responsible for.
So I think in her case, she's better off just moving on because she's only 23 or so young. Go find somebody who does make you feel taken care of. And respected. And respected. Yeah. And loved. And just let this guy figure himself out. And not someone who just wants a mom. Yeah, you don't need to be anybody's mom.
One day you might actually be somebody's mother and you're not going to want to have to mother your partner too. All right. So our last question is from Abrasive Banana. How do you tell the difference between someone who's just [00:55:00] getting comfortable around you and someone who's losing interest? How can you tell if a person who's putting in less effort than they were in the beginning is just getting comfortable, the honeymoon phase fading?
And the relationship versus losing interest by not providing the same effort.
We didn't get a whole lot of details with this one, but I'm guessing this person is going through it. And I think there's a normal amount of honeymoos, honeymoon phase that wears off in any relationship. Like in the beginning, it's all chocolates and flowers and love and kisses and you're totally into each other and your whole world is about each other.
And I think that naturally just. Fades a bit as like the initial excitement of something new starts to wear off and you start getting into like more of a rhythm and a real relationship and you come upon problems and things. I think, if they're ghosting you, if they're not replying to [00:56:00] your messages, if they're, if they keep turning down dates.
I think those are all clear. They're just not interested anymore. Kind of messages. If they're just distracted all the time, if they're not engaged with you at all I think that is that's maybe they're not interested anymore. But I think just normal, if the romance isn't coming as fast as it was in the beginning, I think that's real normal.
Laurel: Yeah. I think we didn't get a lot of details here. Like we don't know how long they've been together. We don't know if they live together. So I feel like that would help inform my answer. But I agree with a lot of what Rachel said. I think that honeymoon phase does wear off and start, I don't know, going to the bathroom with the door open and your husband talks to you while you go or leaving your socks on the couch.
I don't know, but this is what happens, you do get comfortable and, the sort of physical aspect, wears off a bit but do you still [00:57:00] enjoy each other's company? Do you still enjoy being together? Do you still Look to them for comfort or support.
Do you still want to listen to their long diatribes about what happened to work today? That's you know a relationship that's real a real relationship as opposed to just being into someone You Or not, that's where the real long haul is, I think.
Pam: Well, after 55 years I think I may be able to speak to this a little bit, even though I agree they didn't give us much information, but
for, as far as a honeymoon phase that was over for us a really long time ago, but I think there are tells that show you. if the person is just getting comfortable with you or is not that into you. And I'm going to try to explain this the best that I can because I've been in a very long [00:58:00] term relationship, so there have been a lot of ebbs and flows in this relationship.
And I think in a relationship that's long lasting is that you never really lose sight of each other. . There are times when we've, I don't know how to say it, we've been more in love or less in love or, more together, less together, but we've always been there. We're always there for one another.
And When they are losing interest in you, you start to see some sneaky sort of behavior, I think I would call it, where they become much more into themselves or they're secretive about things. Or you notice that they're on their phone and they stop talking when you walk in the room, or they're on the computer and all of a sudden the screen goes black when you walk into the room, or they [00:59:00] change personally.
They lose weight, they start dressing differently. That could be a tell that they're interested in somebody else or having a relationship with somebody else. Somebody who's comfortable with you, like Laurel said, is going to, leave the door open when they go to the bathroom or, they're gonna feel comfortable being in their ratty shorts and t shirt around you.
But they're still gonna be there for you and they're not gonna act like something's different. And I guess that would be what I would look for in this is are there things going on that are making you feel uncomfortable about? what this person is doing. I think if they're just comfortable, I think it's fine.
Rachel: If you would like to submit your own question, you can do so at www.generationmompod.com. We have some of [01:00:00] our future topics on that website, so if there is a topic that specifically you want to ask about, you can click on that button or you can just submit a question about anything and it might be featured on a future episode.
We're going to close out today's episode. With what are we into right now? What's something happy? What's something positive that's bringing joy or adding to our lives? I'll let Laurel go first
Laurel: okay, I'm gonna say and this is gonna sound so off the wall. I'm sure but we have an owl and It's I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying this owl. We have an owl, we live on a half acre, it's not very wooded, but we do have trees and I've seen hawks, I've seen falcons, I've seen all of that, but we have an owl this summer that is living in our yard, we've seen him a couple times he was right on the tree in front of my house when I came home one day, and then a couple weeks ago, he was in the [01:01:00] middle of our yard with his house.
wingspan, full wingspan, just laying there. So I don't know if he was sunning himself or drying off. We have a creek not too far from where we live. And he's huge, absolutely enormous. And at night sometimes, We'll hear a noise and it'll sound like one of the cats crying and then we'll realize it's the owl.
It's our owl hooing in our backyard, so it's really been an enjoyable experience.
Rachel: Something I like is on Instagram. There's a woman. Her name is Caitlin Murray and her account is at big time adulting. And I just love all of her content.
She's a mom. She usually signs off every video with get yourself a snack. And I just, her content is so hilarious. So amazing. She just did something about coffee and I'm a big coffee person and how anyone. These diets that are telling you to cut out [01:02:00] coffee, are they crazy? Like I need my coffee in the morning.
So at big time adulting, I'll put her in the show notes. She's amazing. Maybe we'll have her on one day. She'll be on our wishlist of guests.
Pam: I guess the thing that brings me to light right now are my four grandchildren. They're just all so terrific and so smart, and they're all into such interesting things.
And I am constantly and continually amazed by what these kids know and do, and my little three year old is into the planets and he gave his grandpa and I a whole lecture on the planets and he knows how they are situated in the sky, he [01:03:00] knows the biggest, the smallest, he knows the hottest, the coolest.
I, I just was amazed. This kid knows everything about these planets, and he seeks out information, at three, seeks out information about these things. And then my granddaughter wants to be president of everything, which I find really funny. She, I don't know, she was campaigning for president of her camp and then she told me that she's going to be president of the United States one day.
I hope it's true. I hope I live to see it. I hope. And then my little F , who is. So adorable and so smart and such a showman he'll break out in song at the drop of a hat And I just love that about him and he's such a sweet little guy. I hope he stays like that He's nine right [01:04:00] now. It's a great age And then my 14 year old grandson who's starting to sound a little bit like a frog because his voice is changing, but he's absolutely brilliant and he's into genealogy and he, it's amazing.
He'll, if you tell him that somebody's coming over, for example, he'll research their whole background and sit them down and tell them all about their whole background, which, everybody is just blown away by. So I don't know. I enjoyed my kids. I really did.
But I have to say that being a grandparent is a whole different ball game. And maybe it's because I get to send them home. I don't know.
Rachel: Thank you all for listening today. If you like our podcast, please tell someone about it, share and like and subscribe and all of the things, [01:05:00] and we will be back next week.
So with that, we'll dive in. So, bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh, thank you.