Episode 9 Transcript - Call Your Mom: An Interview with Elizabeth Kendig and Kate Rogers of Les Femmes Quotidienne
Episode 9 - Call Your Mom
Rachel: [00:00:00] The content of this podcast, Generation Mom, is for entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the host and their guests are their own and do not constitute professional advice. While we strive to provide accurate and up to date information, this podcast is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional, medical, financial, legal, or other advice.
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Elizabeth: And I think that the whole, the hustle culture is so dead in my opinion. I mean, I don't want to hear anything about girl bosses ever again. You know, I mean, we are tired. We are busy. We like, that's just not, that's no way of living. And so to have, to have time to build your life so that you have time, I mean, remember hobbies, remember those.
Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Generation Mom. I'm [00:01:00] Rachel, the elder millennial who tries to stay grounded in all of the chaos of modern parenthood.
Pam: I'm Pam, the Bloomer Mom, to my two co hosts and Nana to their kids. I've spent And I'm here to share my generational wisdom with a touch of tough love.
Laurel: And I'm
Pam: Laurel,
Laurel: your Gen X voice of reason, stuck in the middle, ready to weigh in with unsugarcoated
Rachel: advice.
Join us as we tackle life's big questions across three generations, sharing laughs and insights along the way. This is Generation Mom.
Hello and welcome back to Generation Mom. I'm so excited. We have Pam and Laurel here, but today we are also joined by two special guests. We have Elizabeth Kendig and Kate Rogers with us. , they both write the substack and I'm probably going to pronounce it wrong cause I'm from the South. [00:02:00] Le Femme Quotidienne.
Did I do okay with that? Nailed it. If you're in the South, it's Lays Fams quotidiennes. We're gonna steal that. Yes. , when they aren't penning the sub, Kate leads digital strategy for MSPC Content Agency, making magic for iconic brands while heroically raising twin boys. Oh my goodness, and Elizabeth is the co author of Chase You, an editorial director, award winning blogger and skincare creator who you may know as Beauty Bets or the host of Healers podcast.
They bonded a decade ago in a shared cubicle outside of the office lunchroom and haven't touched microwave popcorn since. Although they now live 2, 000 miles apart with Kate in Minneapolis and Elizabeth in the Bay Area, when they do get together, nothing can pry them from Kate's kitchen counter with its bottomless [00:03:00] conversation, pimento cheese dip and French chard, which sounds amazing, and I would love to join that sometime, if we're ever gonna make a trip to Minneapolis.
Oh, welcome. Thank you both so much for joining us today.
Elizabeth: Thank you. You are welcome anytime.
Rachel: Awesome. Open
Elizabeth: invitation. Thank
Kate: you for having us. It's so fun to be here.
Elizabeth: Thank you. You can tell us how good our pimento cheese is even though we don't make it ourselves. Yeah.
Rachel: Well see, I'm like a, I'm a weird southerner because I'm the only one who was born here in my family.
The rest are from, my dad, we told you, is from Minneapolis. , and then my mom is from Bay city, Michigan. So I'm like a, a hybrid of the two. My mother in law knows she's a true Southerner and knows how to make. Pimento cheese, but I, I'm excited to try it. It's a good hybrid. Such a good hybrid. , [00:04:00] so I know Elizabeth from back in the Healers Wanted days.
, I was on her podcast. Which feels like not that long ago, but was many years ago. , and so that's how we know each other. And she and Kate, I've been following their substack and loving it, especially any beauty advice. 'cause I'm always looking for products 'cause I know nothing about it, but I love beauty products.
, and their advice is awesome and. We are also in the, what do you call it? Like the, having a senior moment here, but you know, in the advice business. There you go. , so I was excited to have them on. And also I really love the story of how you started LFQ. But before we jump into that, I wanted each of you to share which generation do you identify with?
X through and through. Now
Kate: you are [00:05:00] unambiguously
Elizabeth: X. Yes, I am. I am 1977. I still, I am, my, my senior moment is that I, I hold x very dearly . I identify, I listen to the single soundtrack. To this day, I am, yeah, if I could wear flannels, you know, all the time I would tied around my waist. But, , times have changed in that department, but.
Yeah, Gen X. Kate, I had to think about that with you. I feel like you're CUSP or you're
Kate: So I'm CUSP. I'm with Rachel. So I, it depends if what definition we go with. I was born in April of 1981. So, and by some measure, that's an old millennial or the oldest, but sometimes I see it starting at 82 or in 82. So I don't know.
I feel I identify with this exennial. generation, our micro generation. I feel like my sympathies and you know, my husband's four and a half years older than I am. I feel like I probably am an exer at heart, but [00:06:00] certainly feel this crossover space.
Rachel: Mm hmm. Yeah, I'm with you. You're you're a year older than I am.
Elizabeth, you're a year older than Laurel. I think we both can very much relate. You're younger. You're younger. You're younger. You're younger. So I don't know which we should jump into first. Let's, let's talk a little bit. I guess we'll start with the present. How, how LFQ came to be? Well, I will take that.
Elizabeth: This is Elizabeth. You'll, you'll get to know my voice. , I probably sound more Minnesotan than Kate, even though I don't live there anymore, like you said, in, in your lovely intro, , I've been, I was a blogger for years, a magazine editor for years. So, you know, then moved into podcasting. So content creation is just.
something that I just feel the need to do in whatever form and it always is taking a new form and It had been a while since I made something and so that was sort [00:07:00] of Niggling feeling that I was very much trying to ignore. , because I was on a break from that after writing a book and enough people and Rachel, you and I have talked about, you know, so many had so many spiritual conversations, but once you get those breadcrumbs and those signs enough times with people saying, why don't you do a sub stack?
Why don't you have a sub stack? You should write a sub stack. , I realized I needed to pay attention to that and Substack is really, you know, it's a new platform, but it's a way of publishing newsletters and it can serve as a blog. It can serve as your website. It's just a really fantastic slick tool for anyone who wants to start something.
The real tipping point was that I was working with an executive coach and he looked at me one day and said, I need you to make something that is your homework and I need you to not have it be [00:08:00] a business or put any pressure on yourself to monetize it because that's what you do and you are in a creative funk and you are trying to get from A to Z in your head before you make the next thing and how is it going to be a business and, and.
, because that's what all of my content platforms have become, have been businesses in the end. And so I have forgotten how to just make something for the love of it, for the joy of it. And, , so I think I was home in Minneapolis, you know, drinking our Chardonnay and eating our pimento cheese, probably some fried chicken and was telling Kate about this.
And she sort of was like, In her Kate way, like, well, well that I would like to do that with you. Would you ever consider doing that together? And Kate is not shy, but like, you know, she knows that I have had my things and I've done them solo, which was the other pieces that I hadn't considered writing with someone else on a regular basis.
And. [00:09:00] I'm getting chills right now because if there's anyone that I would be willing to do that with creatively, professionally, emotionally, it would be Kate. And so we have had a shorthand since the day we met and that really pushed me over the edge and the second we started working on it together, it just was, I mean, it was, it's been an absolute treat.
So Kate, thanks for being my, my partner in crime. , oh yeah. Always. What? Tell I will stop talking. How about that, ?
Kate: Well, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I feel like the way we got to this is different for each of us, but once we sort of feel like in the, you know, through, over the course of our friendship, we've always kind of had an idea of, oh yeah, maybe we should do something.
But never anything very serious. And me personally, I would always feel too stressed to even take on what that might look like or you know, just kind of. You know, a non starter, even if it was there. [00:10:00] And then when Elizabeth kind of got this message from her coach, make something. And then we talked about it when she was home.
It, I feel like it came together really fast after that. You know, all of a sudden we were like, Oh my gosh, we could do this. We could do this. And we kind of were back and forth and then stumbled on the format. And then we just both gave ourselves permission to just try it and just, you know, see how it feels.
And like Elizabeth saying, kind of doing it without this business pressure and just do it for the sake of doing. , so we jumped in, I mean, this is unlike me to do, but I think I realized that I was feeling the same kind of. You know, yearning to just create something and to write for the sake of writing and to kind of pull in the things that we think about all the time and talk about with our friends in a format, , that's just really friendly and liberating.
I don't know. It's been, it's been really fun.
Elizabeth: I would imagine it's similar to how this podcast came together. I mean, you three are talking about the things you already talk about, [00:11:00] right. Around your kitchen table. And. That's, I mean, we, we keep going back to if we don't want to get out of bed and do it, if we don't actually want to write about it, there's no SEO algorithm.
We definitely pay attention to what our readers love because they are a very loyal and engaged group. But we already know that they, that they will love and care about the same things we do because we've already seen that. And so, and also you cannot fake it. There is just, or we don't want to. We, I mean, I think that that's like the creative message to anyone thinking about doing anything.
Like the second you start faking it or, or something through that's not really you, it's It's rarely successful and also it's a total energy drain and we just decided we're not doing anything. We don't want to do That's us in our 40s, too. We're not doing anything, right? It's an exer in me, but yeah, it's been it's just been fun.
Just been fun [00:12:00]
Kate: I feel like elizabeth. I do have to share my husband marty Did tell us his name is Matt, but we call him Marty, , three or four years ago. And he was like, you two should do a newsletter together. Why don't you just do a newsletter? And we both were kind of like, ah, rolled our eyes and like moved on.
And then here we are.
Elizabeth: Marty's probably taking credit. He will soon find out when we have our husbands on LFQ, they'll realize that. Yeah. Why maybe we were resisting because it's still his work. Still is. That's right.
Rachel: It takes effort. We keep joking about having a generation dad episode and bring our, our husbands on
My, my dad's like, it's not called Generation dad. I don't wanna be on . We were like, they need to see what we're we're doing. My husband finally started listening and it's funny, we did an episode on, . The mental load and i've noticed he must have listened to it because he's been helping out a lot more around the house
Kate: That's [00:13:00] really sweet.
I love that
Rachel: Laurel, I think you were gonna ask a question. Oh god. I've got a whole list already She's she's so good at interviewing I think she missed her
Laurel: calling but
Rachel: There's still
Laurel: time that that seems to be the story of my life But , I wanted to know, you know, you said you kind of talk about Things that are interesting to you, but do you have like a central theme?
To your newsletter that you try to kind of tie into and how did you guys come to that agreement and how has that grown and blossomed? How, how true do you stick to it? Like, do you talk about ghost stories too? When you kind of say that would be fun, or? It's a,
Elizabeth: it's a good question. There's a couple questions in there, I think.
Laurel: ,
yeah.
Elizabeth: We were fairly resistant, , with what we really wanted to do in the beginning. , It, LFQ, we called it an advice conversation. So it embodies the kind of conversations that Kate and [00:14:00] I have with each other about whatever is on our mind. And that can be as meaty as, you know, like a year that certain friends weren't texting me back.
So Kate and I had long exchanges about that. Or it can be as simple as like, , I need to find hiking boots for a trip. So sort of like text exchanges that you already have with your friends and like looking at what are we, what is, what are people coming to us with friends, family. And. I get a lot of questions, , cause I've been a lifestyle editor and a beauty writer.
And so I just get those questions from people in my circle, but we did sort of go, Oh, who are we to be advice columnists? Like, how are we going to say that? That feels so weird. And until we really sat down and wrote like our about page and let ourselves own it, we're like, well, We're in our forties and this is really how it goes.
And we don't have to be dear Abby to still have a point of view and to [00:15:00] have an expertise. I mean, Kate has incredible taste. And I have very strong opinions about the best egg salad. And so we're going to put those out there and you can take it or leave it. But, , those conversations were already happening.
So we just, we just memorialize them.
Laurel: It's kind of what we did too.
Elizabeth: Yeah.
Laurel: Yeah. Okay. So, you know, as an extra, I have to ask, are blocks still a thing? Great
Kate: question.
Laurel: Because that was a big thing right around the time I had my first son and I started a blog and then got derailed when we started having a lot of our personal issues.
And then by the time I came back up for air, like everything was YouTube. And so, you know, I, at least in the, you know, sort of circles I go in, you know, it's all YouTube now and all the blogs So I'm just curious, like that people are still reading blogs or, you know, looking at [00:16:00] blogs or whatever.
Elizabeth: They, they are still a thing.
I mean, I started blogging in 2009 or 2008, I think. And I, that's when blogs were just getting started. And I know some of those original bloggers still have blogs today. I will say it's a lot more work in that they need to tend to all of the social media channels and all of the ways that they get in front of their readers.
So my guess, and I've seen some of them move to sub stack because people don't go to Beauty bets. com anymore to read the blog. If I had one, they go, they get it in an email and then that prompts them to go to the blog or you see something on Instagram and there's a link in the bio and then you go to the blog.
So I don't think everyone is proactively. Visiting blogs, they might not even realize that there are, that there's a blog behind that writer or that influencer. So the [00:17:00] approach has changed, but yeah, they exist. It's not something that I think anyone needs to just start. necessarily because it's a lot of work to drive people to that.
That's why YouTube is like, it's a video blog, right? It's a vlog unto itself. So, and I think
Kate: that's, what's so nice about the sub stack platform, you know, that is kind of reminiscent of what blogging was like in the, you know, 2009 when they were just getting going, it's really friendly for writers. And Elizabeth and I were interested in writing, you know, we're not out to, we're not really out to develop an audience or we're not out to, you know, By no measure do we think of ourselves as influencers.
Absolutely not. , but just we're kind of looking for a place to, to share experience and kind of, you know, like we're saying this framework of an advice conversation really works well for what we're looking to do. We're not trying to make short form video content, at least at this time.
Rachel: Well, I really love that.
And I love this idea of, you know, [00:18:00] creating, just creating something to create it. And I don't know, I feel like it might be a Gen Xer and a, Zenial kind of thing. I feel like anytime I've made anything, there's been this pressure to monetize it or to make it make money and being sort of having a toe in the coaching world for a while.
It's all like build your audience and make the sale and get and so I think, you know, for me, I also was in this place of like, I'm just, right now I just want a job that I like enough that will sort of let me be able to be with my family and then be able to just make something like this podcast and not have to have that pressure of.
SEO and the, I mean, we have, we have a joke of an Instagram page right now where we're like barely tending to it, but like, you know, we promote the [00:19:00] podcast, but right now I'm just like, let's just create it, get it out there. And then, you know, we'll think about maybe that the next step. So,
Laurel: but Instagram's become frustrating because, you know, it used to be you tag your.
You know, pictures or whatever you're putting up there and you know, it would be like in a list and now it's like you go to those tags as the same 10 things at the top of the list. You used to be able to switch it to recent or whatever and you can't even do that anymore. So I'm like, what is the point now?
Like what, why am I tagging these things if I can't even find them? You know, so I don't know how to get around that yet.
Elizabeth: A podcast or a sub stack. We all own our content. We're not reliant on social media platforms that can change and they do change constantly and you're at their mercy. So. I think you're doing it right, Rachel.
And I think that the whole, the hustle culture is so dead in my opinion. I [00:20:00] mean, I don't want to hear anything about girl bosses ever again. You know, I mean, we are tired. We are busy. We like, that's just not, that's no way of living. And so to have, to have time to build your life so that you have time, I mean, remember hobbies, remember those.
Those are from the eighties. And, and so this is also a hobby that happens to be, you're still using a lot of your, you're using a lot of your professional knowledge at the same time. I mean, that's what we're doing. And so it feels meaty and juicy and of our minds. I think, I hope like all of us, like, well, maybe it will, maybe.
Maybe it will take off. Maybe it will be something and, and someone gave us, Kate, I can't remember who said this, but the thing will, will tell you what it wants to be. Your podcast is going to tell you what it wants to be. LFQ is going to tell us what it wants to be. Like we are, we are, we are giving this creative body of work.
license to become [00:21:00] what the world needs and wants instead of pushing and pushing and pushing on it to be something.
Pam: Yeah. I, I think this is a great change because, you know, in my generation, we were brought up to feel that if you were not going to make money from something or be a success, which equated to money also, that it wasn't worth doing it.
And I think that your generations have really flipped that on its head and said, well, wait a minute, we want to be happy. We want to enjoy what we're doing because a lot of us got into jobs that we really didn't enjoy. , but we made money and we looked successful, but I think that that Definition of being successful has really kind of changed and I think it's wonderful that [00:22:00] people can do things that they love you know and not worry so much about how much money they're gonna make or how Successful the world is gonna think they are Sometimes it's nice just to enjoy it for yourself.
Kate: Yeah, I think that's just it Pam. That's really right and I've been It's been so enriching. I think that's the part I enjoy the most is actually, you know, just going back and forth with Elizabeth and we're both in the document kind of work, you know, the craft itself. That's been really satisfying. I mean, I would say I feel like I've always been sort of fiercely anti hustle culture.
I've never really had that mindset, nor have I approached, , , side hustles and with any seriousness or, and I don't know why I really appreciated listening to your episode, work, work, work. And I could really identify with things that all three of you said about your career journey and certainly recognize that my own is fraught.
You know, I mean, that's another reason. And I think LFQ came to be because Elizabeth and I are both just asking ourselves like, okay, we're in our forties now. And is [00:23:00] this what we wanted? Is this what we meant? You know, I've got a ways to go. I'll be working for some time, but I'm constantly like, God, am I, how did I get here?
Like, is this what, what, so I don't know, I don't know what to say other than I just really appreciated hearing your takes. And I just love the cross generational interplay because they are, you know, there are generational influences here.
Rachel: Yeah, there definitely are. I'd love to hear from both of you. We sort of shared in that episode, how our views of success have changed.
And I'd love to hear from both of you, how your view of success has changed and maybe a little bit about sort of your own career journeys. Cause I think, you know, I didn't, I definitely started out thinking I was going to climb the corporate ladder and those priorities shifted as I got into my forties, definitely.
So I'd love to hear your own. Stories. Either one can
Kate: go.
Elizabeth: I can start since I go further back a little bit further back than Kate. , [00:24:00] Gen X. I thought about this. Thank you for that thought starter. , I was very squarely in the generation of girls can have do be anything, particularly in math and science.
So academically it was, I mean, you can, , If you had, if I, if you have good grades in math and science, like, let's get you into engineering. Like there, there was, I mean, there was support nationally for this. And so we're hearing that. And then at the same time, I'm hearing from my incredible parents, like you can be anything.
And so I found that having sky's the limit and also all the opportunities in the world, which they created for me. And also like I was, you know, doing well in school, having. Too many options. And also that much pressure that I could be, , I mean, [00:25:00] whatever, I didn't want to be the president, but like, was almost paralyzing for many years for me, the pressure was enormous.
And I will fully own that. I put the pressure on myself because there's also like a lot of psychology around, if someone tells you you're smart and someone tells you you are capable and have limitless potential suddenly. That backfires like debilitating. Yeah, it's debilitating. It was debilitating. So, , so I spent, I think it's only recently that my identity and my life force and where I feel myself worth and validation are not completely wrapped up in my career and I could.
Pretend that they're not, but at the end of the day, I mean, that's the thing that has always felt like it will make or break me when things are going well. I'm high on life when things are not going well, professionally. [00:26:00] It's, I mean, it's devastating. And so I've really had to work through that. And I do remember when I started dating my husband, he said, and I was working.
I was working with Kate at MSPC and I was still running this like beauty empire. And I say that, you know, loosely, but, , he said, you know, you know, that 80 hours a week is not going to be conducive to a relationship. Right. And I was like, ah, I don't understand. Like, that's just what, that's just what I do.
And I know I said, I'm not hustle culture, but it didn't feel like hustle. It just felt like. It just work was just what was feeding me so much. And, , my takeaway today is that I S is like what Pam said. I care way more now I've checked all those boxes. I've achieved the things that I [00:27:00] wanted to achieve up until this point.
And.
Now I'm more focused on how all how what I'm doing makes me feel and how it supports my life and the things that I value and prioritize. And but that's taken like it's been an extraction for sure. And so I think, you know, you've get you gave sort of my My career journey. So I won't keep talking on this, but, , yeah, well, Elizabeth,
Kate: I can just really vouch for the way that your relationship with Ty has changed your whole orientation toward how you work, how you spend your time, how you protect your time, how you really work on and prioritize, you know, cultivating your connection with Ty and making sure that that gets space and just, you know, I mean, I first met you when you were doing the 80 hours around the clock thing.
And to some extent, I was doing that as well, [00:28:00] but in a different way. And that you do, you do burn out. I mean, I am, Incapable of working the way I worked when I was in my twenties and thirties. It just, I just don't have it in me anymore. And I think that's okay. You know, and I think there's really something to this idea that like that much time in, you know, another generational thing that I think is shifting because the younger, my younger colleagues don't.
don't see it that way at all. They don't really, you know, they sort of frown upon, , extra time and in a way that is, I think has positives and negatives, but, , so I, I don't know, I do not have a terrific definition for success right now. I feel like I'm at a, in a very transitional moment in my career.
, I'm, you know, part of a leadership team. And so kind of my journey as a leader is something that I'm evaluating. I feel like I have a lot more I want to do. , but I, I don't know.
Elizabeth: Yeah, it's, and Ty is my husband, by the way, , it's, it's an interesting juxtaposition, Rachel, we'll let you [00:29:00] host too. , Oh no, I love it.
I think we forget that we change as time goes on there. There is this trying to get from point a to B and then you get there. It's, it might be what you thought it was going to be. It might not be, but you're also evolving in the, in the process. So I don't think I can speak for Kate and I, we. We care deeply about our careers.
That is not going to change for me. Like it is, if I'm spending six, eight, 10, 12 hours a day, like I still want to love it. I'm not, I don't think I'm ever going to walk away from just, just having a job. That's maybe that's a Gen X thing. I don't know. Maybe that's a, maybe that's a Z thing. Like I, I, I need, I want my work to, To challenge me and fulfill me.
And it's not going to all the time, just like nothing is going to do that for us all the time. But it's now like, [00:30:00] where does that fit into our lives versus the other way around, because we are tired. Yes, we are. We are. So, , and once you sort of, okay, now I'm going to go off on my tangent, but like when you have your relationships and they're good and you have your friendships and you have your spouse or your partner and your kids and, and That's, that's like becomes the foundation to get to explore some of these other avenues professionally and creatively.
So I think everyone on this call, everyone on this podcast, like we're in this lovely position to do that. Now we've worked really hard to have the life we want and now it's okay. Now, what do I really want from my career when I don't have anything to really prove, right?
Rachel: Yeah. If there's so much there that I want to say, it's, you know, Yeah, I feel like I'm in, finally at this place and I've sort of I don't know.
It's like, I don't know if it's a generational thing, if it goes along [00:31:00] with like, you can be anything you want to be. But I feel like in my twenties and thirties, there was a big push of like, do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life or like your life's purpose needs to be your job. And like, I, and I was there for a while.
And then I think I'm at a point now where I'm like, I want to like what I do and enjoy what I do and feel proud of it, but I don't think it has to be my life. Purpose because I have other things in my life now that are my purpose. But when I was 20, it's like you said, Elizabeth, like I was 20, I was single.
I worked 80 hours a week. My job was everything to me. And then when I. met my husband and then we started having a family like that sort of my focus is shifted to More that way and I feel like sort of at different times in my career and my life My you know, it's sort of like what you focus on grows. So it's like [00:32:00] well right now I have two little kids my focus needs to be here and I need to do something that I still like But it doesn't have to be my life purpose right now.
Like, it's what I've been doing. It's PR, which I was very resistant to for a long time. Staying in PR, , and communications, but it's what I'm good at. And so, and it's like, I don't hate it. It's like, I'm going to keep working on it. And that's really powerful, right? Right. I'm not hating it. That's pretty good.
Yeah. Yeah. It is. So I feel like it's that, that, also that shift of like, or that balance between, you know, doing something you love, but it doesn't have to be like world changing either. No.
Elizabeth: Yeah.
Pam: I don't really think that this is a generational thing. I think this is life. And I think as you'll find that as you continue to grow and age and your families get bigger, [00:33:00] that you evolve with that and your desires change as time goes on and also just a fact of life.
Your abilities also change in terms of, you know, I mean, I'm 76. I'm not as spry as I used to be, unfortunately. , and, you know, I too used to work long hours and all of that. I couldn't even imagine doing that today. I have to have a nap every afternoon. So I think, you know, you'll find that that will happen, you know, as you get older.
And I think it's just a part of life. And I think it happens to all of us, no matter what generation we're from.
Rachel: I think, , something Kate touched on, too, is I I feel like I'm seeing a shift as well in the younger generations and sort of they value their time more and I, especially what I'm seeing in the corporate [00:34:00] world is, you know, whereas we weren't paid to commute in, but we were wasting hours of our life.
Like, I see this younger generation being like, this is my time. And if you want me for this amount of time, this is what I need to be getting. Compensated. And there's, you know, good and bad to both of that, but I, I really feel like maybe it was the pandemic. Maybe it's just a different generation, but I feel like they're asking for more than maybe we did in terms of being compensated for their, their time and not taken advantage of, I guess.
Cause I don't know, when I was in the corporate world, it was like, you work 80 hours a week and that's how you get ahead and you're not paid anymore, but I don't know. I feel like, I feel like there's been a shift there and sort of like wanting companies to value you a little bit more than maybe we spoke up for.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Yeah. I would add that. I mean, it did come out of the pandemic in some ways, [00:35:00] but. They don't have a world that is, that they can count on anymore. They don't have an economy. They can count on that. They don't have pensions. Nothing is stable. I mean, the job market is tough. And so we could say, if I put this time in, I will climb the ladder.
I will get my benefits. I will. I mean, I might work a little bit more, but there was, there was, I think, more reward to it financially. And I mean, I've seen people do. The jobs of three in this generation or be asked to and be taken advantage of. And I've had a lot of younger employees over the years and I, some of them, yes.
I mean, the entitlement cliche probably exists for a reason, but also like I look to them, they're, they're teaching me how to set boundaries, like healthy boundaries. And they're loving their lives and putting their lives first long before we did and [00:36:00] having this conversation now. So hopefully, hopefully it evens out a little bit.
Kate: I
Elizabeth: hope.
Kate: Yeah, I don't know if it's, you know, I, and that. positive or negative, but it is just different. And I think it's hugely influenced by the pandemic and how we're just everyone is working differently now. But I mean, Rachel, I really identified, I think you talked about, you know, your entry level PR role where the expectation is you're going to do all these crap tasks, you know, and like, that's how I've been in roles like that.
And I, and so just this, you know, going into it, it's still sometimes hard when I see somebody showing up who is so junior in their career, and they're still They seemingly are unwilling to do all those unglamorous things where it's like, what happened to this idea of putting your time in, you know, and they do.
And there's some very smart people, but, , or talented young people. I love a lot of the young people that I work with, but they're, , I don't know this idea of. Like an employer brand, like we, it's, I have a [00:37:00] responsibility to make sure that I am creating a culture where people want to be and where they feel seen and where they feel like they can contribute and they feel taken care of.
And I applaud that. I mean, I think that's really, I think Elizabeth, , brings up a good point by just how unstable everything is and, you know, the challenges and stresses that we're all navigating, but are more acute. Maybe for people that are in their twenties now, , than what it was like when we were getting started.
So I don't know, it's a lot, but I think that maybe it's not a bad thing that there's high expectations on the employer side for what kind of, ,
Rachel: working
Kate: space you create.
Rachel: Yeah, definitely. And I think I've seen more of that, you know, especially having my toe sort of in the corporate PR world and, and, , Client I'm working with now, even a lot of the work I do with them is on their employer brand and, and building their company culture and making sure they're in alignment with that.
Cause it's one thing to kind of talk the talk, but then you have to really implement. [00:38:00] Everything that you say. And so, I mean, I, I think there are also, you know, always going to be the companies that do it well, and then the companies that really don't do it well. And you hear probably more about the companies that don't do it well in the news, but yeah, it's been interesting to see this shift and then to be on, on this sort of.
This end of the career, not that I'm anywhere close to the end of my career, but just, you know, being further along and thinking back let's, because we fancied ourselves in the beginning is an advice podcast, which it's funny. You said that about. LFQ being an advice conversation because I feel like that's what this is really morphed into our podcast because at first I was like, you know, we had no listeners.
So I'm like pulling questions off Reddit and we're answering them, but I feel like in our within our conversations There's advice and we've just started kind of Giving general advice at the end of our conversation. So, I'd love to hear from you. You know, [00:39:00] what, what advice would you give your younger self?
You know, if you met them today about, about career or creativity?
Kate: Oh man, I, I'll take this one. I think, so I sometimes kick myself where I just, I don't think that I thought hard enough about what kind of paths I might want. So where I am now, I don't know that it's different than any vision I may have had, because I don't know that I set that up with much clarity.
, and I think, you know, I just, The one thing that I always enjoyed doing was writing. And so I just kind of followed this writerly track and somehow ended up in a digital strategy space, which makes no sense. But I think they're going back to something that we touched on, you know, kind of the, my parents, my boomer parents, , you know, it was, you can do anything.
And you are so smart, and I don't, like Elizabeth said, I don't think that was ultimately helpful. I [00:40:00] wish that I would have focused a little bit more on the effort and the time into something for an outcome that I earned or that I did. I think being so worried about, you know, being smart or not or being good really prevented me from exploring, you know, things, A little bit more widely.
And I feel like there's probably an entirely different track that may have been better for me.
Elizabeth: Yeah. I will piggyback on that. We're, we're saying the same things, but I would tell myself to not focus so much on getting the grades and the achievements, but on what are you interested in? What do you care about?
Who are you? Because. You know what college is like, and then you get out there into the real world. And, and I was just focused on the next achievement, but none of that is really guided by us diving into our own psyches and values. And I don't, I don't know if it would have gone any differently, but it maybe would have [00:41:00] been less painful and, , more joyful.
Rachel: I love. I love what you both said and, and going back to this idea of, you know, growing up, thank you, Pam, for telling us how smart we were and that we could do everything. I remember being in high school and being mortified because there was, , you know, high school, friend of mine and he was this like very accomplished cello player, but his parents were making him go to medical school.
And I remember being just horrified at this thought. And then as I've gotten older, I mean, I still, they still should have let him explore cello, but as I've gotten older, I'm like, Why couldn't my parents just told me I had to be a lawyer or doctor or something? Like, I've been sort of trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up for all this time, but I probably would have fought against it even if Pam had told me what
Pam: Well, can I, can I just speak for the I would have just
Rachel: done it.
Yeah, Laurel would have done it. [00:42:00]
Pam: Can I just speak for the Boomer parents for a minute?
Rachel: Yeah.
Pam: , You know, I mean, all of those things that we told our kids, and we all did tell you, you were all, you know, you all could do anything. And especially the girls, because so many limits were put on us. And, you know, when I went to college, you know, pretty much you were going to be a secretary or you were going to be a receptionist in a doctor's office, or you were going to be a nurse.
or a teacher. And that was pretty much, you know, the, the, what your future held for you. , and it was kind of, or you were going to just be a mother, you know, there was a big push on that too, that you go to college and get your MRS degree. So, , I mean that, you know, this is what, how we grew up. And, It was just changing, I think, as [00:43:00] I went to college.
Things were just starting to change, and women were being given a lot more opportunities, and schools and things were opening up to them. But this is where that came from, and I can see where that could be an overwhelming message now. Looking back, but at the time, we wanted you to know that you were just as good as any man and that you could do whatever it was that you put your mind to.
So we did do it from a good place, I think. Yes, absolutely.
Kate: That makes so much, I mean, that message was necessary to impart. Right? And I think, Laurel, you said something, , about how it's like, you know, like it never occurred to you that you wouldn't have a career and you knew you wanted to be successful and you knew you wanted to achieve a lot, but just kind of what doing
Laurel: what
Kate: really hit home with me.
Laurel: That's been my whole [00:44:00] life. Cause you know, exactly like you said, it's the achievement and the grades and the getting into the college and doing all the things you need to get into the college. And, you know, I mean, I certainly wasn't a straight A student, but it was. Education and achievement was very much bounded into me.
And you know, there was sort of that sense of failure because I didn't make national honor roll or you know, I wasn't anywhere near the valedictorian, you know, like all of that. But like, you know, I have, you know, my oldest is so smart and I see myself putting that on him. And of course he's a boy, but it's like he'll be the vale valedictorian someday because that's like, I can see it, you know, like that's him, you know?
And. Whereas my little one's a little bit more like Rachel was, where he has a million things he wants to do. But I can pinpoint what he's actually talented at, and I let him do as many of the different things. You know, he loves playing soccer, so I let him play soccer every year, even though [00:45:00] that kid has no idea what he's doing on that court.
But he's having fun, you know, so I let him do it. But like, he has talents that I kind of try to steer him to, you know, they're not necessarily the, like, You know, lucrative career type talents that my parents would have, you know, you know, the more the chill out cello side and not the medical side, you know, like, that's, I still feel like I need to kind of help steer them to where they're gifted, as opposed to, you know, just being like, okay, great, here you go, go out into the world and make your way and, you know, You know, you're left walking around when I have no idea what to do.
Like, what, what am I supposed to do now? You know, and the other thing I see from my generation versus like the young millennials and Z ers now is, you know, our generation, it was very corporate. Like you went into a business, you started at the coffee level and you worked your way up and that was what you're supposed to do.
And even today, like my dad can't seem to [00:46:00] understand. My husband jumps on the train. you know, job to job every few years. And that's the way you get raises now, you know, he hasn't actually gotten a raise in his current job in three years, but he got a huge jump when he took this job. So like, you know, my dad sees that as not being loyal and not, you know, sticking with the, And, you know, just stay somewhere and work here 40 years.
And that's not how it works anymore, even for us. And then the zears are like making their way on their own, like between the technology they have available to them and their sort of life values and, and also, In some instances, the job market, you know, they're going out there and they're just like, I'm going to do this thing.
And they just go do it. And I'm like, who gave you the authority to go do that? You know, like, what makes you qualified to go just be this thing and do it on your own? And who gave you that education and know to do that? You know, like, I don't know. They just have this like, , sense of [00:47:00] self that they can just go out there and do anything and do it on their own.
And that's amazing, you know, and that's something like I never would have thought to do. And, you know, I can't speak for my whole generation, but, you know, for the most part, that was not an option, you know, So,
Kate: I mean, I think my kids, my kids feel like being a YouTube content creator is a legitimate career.
And
Laurel: it is now. I was the kid, my parents said, get off the game, you're never going to make a money playing a computer game. And can I tell you how many YouTubers I watch on TV now with my kids who are making bajillions of dollars playing games. And my kid sits and watches them play the game. So my kid's not even playing the game anymore.
He's sitting watching other people play the game. Making money and I'm like, I could have done this. Why didn't I do this? You
Elizabeth: know, you still can.
Laurel: Well, now it feels like, and this was one of the questions I was going to ask you too. And Rachel kind of touched on too, is, you know, how do you break into that now [00:48:00] that you.
have, you know, all this competition, anyone with a computer can write a blog or, you know, do a YouTube or whatever, do a podcast. How do you, especially when you're not trying to monetize it, like break in and say, I'm as good as that person, or someone's going to watch me instead of the 5 million people that are watching them, you know, like, how do you, you know, First of all, like just have the self confidence to do that.
And second of all, how do you actually make a go of it? When there's all these experts already out there who have cornered that market.
Elizabeth: It's going to be someone doing it though, with anything creative it's, you're going to do it differently, or you're going to do it better. And you do like that chutzpah, whether you fake it or not.
I mean, there's no. There's no secret sauce besides just going for it. , you know, unless you, I mean, I
Kate: feel like we had to ask ourselves that for LFQ, right? [00:49:00] Just like, who cares? Like, why would we put this out there? Who cares what we think? I feel this more strongly than Elizabeth does. I will say that, but then we kind of got to this point when we're, you know, we're not doing it for the outcome.
We're doing it for the thing itself. And it's like, well, I care what Elizabeth thinks, and she cares what I think, and that's enough, you know?
Laurel: That's sort of where we are. At the table, I'll be like, is anyone listening? Does anyone care? Why are we doing this? No one cares about us. No one knows us. You know, like, why are they, why, why do they care?
But
Pam: you do it for yourself. And that's what's really new today. And that is a very foreign idea for, well, especially, you know, you're talking about daddy, but you know, our generation, you didn't do anything for yourself in the boomer generation. It was all to impress people and get ahead. And I think it's, I personally [00:50:00] think it's much better today that people, you know, can make a YouTube channel, a lucrative, , living and all of that.
I mean, we never even would have, well, we didn't have it back then, but I mean, we would never even have thought about that. So I just think it's the changing of the world. And you know, you have to sort of, as long as you're on this earth, you have to kind of keep up with each new generation that comes up because maybe they do have some better ideas than your generation did or the previous generations did.
And I think we can all learn from one another. Which I, is a beautiful thing. It really is. If we stop to listen to one another and really appreciate one another.
Elizabeth: Pam with the mic drop every time. I
Rachel: know.
Pam: Nailed it.
Rachel: She's always got a good closing argument. Well, I want to thank both of [00:51:00] you for your time today and also give you an opportunity to plug LFQ or anything else you have going on before we say goodbye.
Elizabeth: I think that's our number one. And I'm sure it'll be in the show notes and we
Rachel: yeah,
Elizabeth: I just talked about it's, we're not monetizing it so it's completely free. We send out a letter every other Wednesday and you can donate if you want to support us, but buy us a mascara, you know, but otherwise it's completely, so we are, everyone is welcome at our table.
Rachel: Awesome. Thank you. There's a lipstick I keep meaning to buy that you wrote about a few weeks ago. That just looks amazing. So, , well, thank you. We appreciate you so much. We will be reading and, , we'll see you soon. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you.
Pam: Thank you.
[00:52:00]